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Original poster

Did she get a long enough sentance?

33 replies

pyjamagirl · 13/11/2007 15:08

Shocked to hear that a CM was jailed for just 3 years after been found guilty of shaking her mindee to death.
Can't begin to imagine how the little girls parents are feeling today ,3 years for taking their little girl away.

news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1292637,00.html

OP posts:
Saturn74 · 13/11/2007 15:15

Seems a very short sentence for the manslaughter of a baby.

"Henderson, who had been a childminder for seven years and was also a Beaver Scout leader, claimed Maeve jerked backwards during a seizure on March 2."

"Medical experts said the injuries she suffered could only have been caused by violent shaking".

I hope the medical evidence was conclusive though, and this is not another situation that relied on so-called 'expert witnesses'.

So very sad for the parents.

ELF1981 · 13/11/2007 16:09

I think this is a very sad case, but what worries me is the idea that the injuries could have been weeks/months old. IS it possible that severe damage was caused by somebody other than the CM?

I just hate to think of CMs (and parents) being capable of this kind of abuse

Lulumama · 13/11/2007 16:13

i echo what humphrey says

i think medical experts don;t get it right everytime

either way, lives are ruined, a baby is dead and people are devastated

jesuswhatnext · 13/11/2007 16:33

i feel quite uncomfortable about this case, on the face of it this woman should be locked up for many years, however, her defense 'expert witnesses' have stated that the injuries could have been quite old and it not not conclusive that the CM caused them.

horrible shades of other mis-carriages of justice.

LittleBella · 13/11/2007 20:09

This is a very strange case. If it had been a parent who had shaken this baby to death, they would have been locked up for a lot longer than 3 years.

OTOH, if there is enough reasonable doubt that she did it, then she shouldn't be locked up at all.

Acinonyx · 14/11/2007 10:50

I agree LittleBella. I'm very uncomfortable with this case. There doesn't seem to be sufficient evidence against the CM and if she is innocent her life is ruined.

RosaTransylvania · 15/11/2007 12:36

I don't like this case at all, it doesn't feel right. I fear it is yet another Sally Clark/Angela Cannings situation. God help the poor woman if, as I suspect, she is innocent.

Upwind · 15/11/2007 12:45

from: www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2210254,00.html
"Expert witnesses for the defence said the injuries could have been days, weeks or even months old."

Given this - how could the child minder be found guilty without reasonable doubt?

It reminds me of the Louise Woodward case - surely an older sibling, a parent or anyone else with access to the baby might have injured her.

Upwind · 15/11/2007 12:59

Can't stop thinking about this - Keran Henderson seems to have been found guilty based purely on medical opinion. Surely circumstantial evidence at best. I wonder is there a fundamental problem with the way expert medical opinions are represented in the adversarial court system?

Such cases should be about proving guilt but, where there is expert opinion against the carer, the burden of proof seems to shift to the accused to prove their own innocence. And that is damn near impossible to do.

mummyrex · 16/11/2007 11:41

I know Keren who is a wonderful parent and carer. She is not a close family friend or relative so my view is not coloured in that way. I have a 15month old daughter who I love with all my heart and I would happily leave her with Keren knowing she was in the safest hands.

She is a truly amazing woman, and throughout this all she and her family have been so incredible. Still smililing or at least trying to smile, still contributing to our community every day even though this has been hanging over them since 2005.

When I heard the news that she had been convicted it was devastating. Not just because of the impact on Keren and her family but because it is so very very frightening - f this could happen to her it could happen to me or you!

As Upwind already pointed out:
"Expert witnesses for the defence said the injuries could have been days, weeks or even months old."
Even if a jury thought she might have been responsible how could they possibly convict given this evidence?

The Police decided from the start what they thought happened and have totally refused to investigate ANY other possibility.

What happened to Maeve was tragic but it had nothing to do with Keren.

LittleBella · 16/11/2007 17:27

Thank you for posting mummyrex.

I presume the case will go to appeal?

LittleBella · 16/11/2007 17:28

It almost sounds like the judge suspects this is not real, because 3 years for killing a child, particularly when you are a professional who is contracted to care for the child, is an incredibly lenient sentence.

Upwind · 16/11/2007 17:35

The Judge's wording when he passed sentence was strange

"You are going to have to live the rest of your life with the knowledge that Maeve died in your care. We do not know what really happened to make you snap in the way the jury found that you did."

It almost sounds as though he doubted the verdict too.

That poor woman. My sympathy goes out to her and her family whetever really happened.

pinkteddy · 16/11/2007 18:01

According to the press I have read, this CM was very highly thought of in the community and has looked after children for many years. The whole thing makes me feel very uncomfortable. I agree with others, there is something not quite right about it.

edam · 16/11/2007 18:22

Upwind, I thought the judge's comments were a clear indication that he didn't agree with the jury.

Tanith · 16/11/2007 18:55

I've been a childminder for 7 years and this case scares the hell out of me. I'm seriously thinking of giving up if they can convict this poor woman on such flimsy evidence. All they can say with any certainty is that Keran Henderson was looking after this child when she collapsed.

The case never did sit comfortably with me and I was so shocked at the verdict, I did a bit of research. What I've found is loads and loads of people, and not just on her website, who knew Keran personally and who are saying that she couldn't possibly have done this and that the baby was known to have fits.

This is her website. Read for yourselves.

www.carers4carers.co.uk/

LittleBella · 16/11/2007 19:57

It is quite terrifying actually. There appears to be a general attitude that there is no such thing as an accident or misfortune, someone always has to be to blame. I would not like to be a teacher or CM in this climate, in fact I'll think twice about hosting playdates from now on.

Upwind · 17/11/2007 11:39

The reaction to the Madeleine McCann story made me lose faith in the jury system. Almost everyone I know in real life who expressed an opinion on that case claimed to know what had happened. With no obvious grounds for their belief.

It terrifies me that a jury could have the same stupid mob reaction to a tragedy and fail to rationally weigh up evidence. I wonder whether people were always so bad at considering probabilities and possibilities? Or maybe there has been some sort of cultural shift...

In the Keran Henderson case, I would guess it will be thrown out on appeal. But she will never be able to clear her name now or repair the damage done to her and her family.

mummyrex · 17/11/2007 11:50

The whole community is rallying to do whatever it can to both support Keran's family and to fight this appalling travesty of 'justice'. Yellow ribbons are appearing everywhere which is so heartening, except that next minute you want to cry knowing that this wonderful Mum will be lost from her children this Christmas.

If any of you are childminders or are considering looking after children on your own then be very afraid of what this case has to say.

Even the most cynical of you, who might say that you never really know a person, must acknowledge that a conviction based on such flimsy 'evidence' is very unsafe.

Please have a look at the website that Tanith posted www.carers4carers.co.uk/. If you know anyone who is a childminder or similar then do encourage them to have a look too.

If you think you could help in some way eg writing to your MP etc then please do!

edam · 17/11/2007 13:13

I wonder if three years was the minimum sentence the judge could possibly give her? Or if he knew, with overcrowded prisons and good behaviour, that she'd be out in much shorter period of time or something?

Certainly seems to be reasonable doubt about this case. I'm surprised she was convicted - guess the expert witness for the prosecution must have been very convincting.

Upwind · 17/11/2007 14:22

This case is a personal tragedy for both Maeve and Keran's families but it also has wider ramifications. I think this case might reduce the number of people willing to mind children in their own home and so make it even harder for parents to find suitable childcare. It will also mean that fewer childminders will be willing to care for children with special needs or who are "known to have fits" like the baby in this case.

Worse it reinforces the notion that if a child is brought to hospital with an injury, medical opinion alone might secure a conviction for abuse. Children, and even babies, regularly hurt themselves and one another. It does not mean that whoever was caring for them at the time is automatically guilty of a criminal act!

Also, I thought that "shaken baby syndrome" had been discredited as a diagnosis? When I did a search for it I found this from the bbc: "the Appeal Court will hear that new evidence suggests the symptoms linked to shaken baby syndrome could actually be caused by a "far lesser threshold of force", such as short falls, vaccinations, difficult births or genetic conditions." Surely it must be impossible to test the theory behind "shaken baby syndrome" for ethical reasons, and so it is all based on supposition?

LittleBella · 17/11/2007 17:58

Upwind, I've wondered this - are people stupider than they used to be?

I do think we now have a media which encourages idiocy rather than sober analysis. And the education system doesn't really "do" critical thought and logic anymore, until you get to a certain level, which most of the population don't. And I agree with you about the McCann case, it exposed a massive level of uncritical thought and inability to follow a logical argument.

Plus there's the CPS. In the old days it was the police who decided to prosecute and I very much doubt that they would have even put this case before the courts. I wonder what sort of people decide cases in the CPS.

Desiderata · 17/11/2007 18:16

I think people are more stupid than they used to be, yes. The knowledge and comprehension of modern society is a mile wide and an inch deep.

Too much media ... way too much.

I agree that this particular case is disturbing. I hope the process of law reaches a more balanced conclusion some time soon.

mummyrex · 18/11/2007 13:42

Two articles in the Sunday papers:

"The expert as judge and jury" in the Sunday Times business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2889323.ece

"Mussolini would have blushed at these laws, Mr Brown" in The Mail on Sunday" www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/columnists/columnists.html?in_article_id=494658&in_page_i d=1772&inauthorid=224

Upwind · 18/11/2007 14:37

The Times article about expert witnesses is very scary. So if an expert witness behaves like a gun for hire and routinely gives evidence to suit their employers' cases they stand to make a great deal of money.

This is really

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