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As suspected, the Monarch: "Politically neutral" my arse

9 replies

SerendipityJane · 07/02/2021 17:39

Apparently, over the years, my problem has been I could never understand how the Queen was "above politics".

Now, it transpires I've been right for decades, and that the Queen was just as much up to her neck in politics as everyone else - especially when it came to making sure she was alright, Jack.

Notice she chased them. So hardly "neutral".

Needless to say, she won't get my vote next time. After all, how do you remove a corrupt Monarch ?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-queen-lobbied-for-change-in-law-to-hide-her-private-wealth

The Queen successfully lobbied the government to change a draft law in order to conceal her “embarrassing” private wealth from the public, according to documents discovered by the Guardian.

A series of government memos unearthed in the National Archives reveal that Elizabeth Windsor’s private lawyer put pressure on ministers to alter proposed legislation to prevent her shareholdings from being disclosed to the public.

Following the Queen’s intervention, the government inserted a clause into the law granting itself the power to exempt companies used by “heads of state” from new transparency measures.

The arrangement, which was concocted in the 1970s, was used in effect to create a state-backed shell corporation which is understood to have placed a veil of secrecy over the Queen’s private shareholdings and investments until at least 2011.

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Sloth66 · 08/02/2021 16:31

I read that too. Unelected and completely unaccountable. This is not acceptable in a democracy.

prh47bridge · 08/02/2021 19:18

Very poor journalism. Queen's consent is genuine but is exercised on the advice of the government. The Queen has never refused consent when requested by the government. And, as others have pointed out, there are good reasons why the Queen's investments should remain private. If the information was public it could seriously disadvantage any company that received investment from royal funds.

It may be true that the Queen's lawyers lobbied for this change, but she did not force the government to comply with her wishes. The Guardian article does not allege that she did.

In terms of "being above politics", this was not a party political issue at the time.

SerendipityJane · 10/02/2021 11:14

Seems like a plague of poor journalism. Remind me again how we can vote these freeloading scum out ? Democracy my arse.

uk.news.yahoo.com/prince-charles-vetted-laws-stop-150009793.html

Prince Charles vetted laws that stop his tenants buying their homes

The royal family has used a secretive procedure to vet three parliamentary acts that have prevented residents on Prince Charles’ estate from buying their own homes for decades, the Guardian can reveal.

His £1bn Duchy of Cornwall estate was later given special exemptions in the acts that denied residents the legal right to buy their own homes outright.

Under the opaque procedure, the Queen and Prince of Wales were allowed to vet the contents of the bills by government ministers and approve them before they were passed by parliament.

The exemptions have left residents living in homes that have diminishing or no financial value. The residents say they cannot borrow against their homes to pay, for example, for social care fees for themselves and loved ones.

Jane Giddins, who lives in one of the prince’s houses in a Somerset village, said a “feudal and anachronistic” system had unfairly favoured Charles, to her family’s detriment. “When we die, our kids will be left with a property that is very difficult to sell,” she said.

The exemptions enable the prince to preserve the financial value of his estate and brings in income as the tenants have to pay rent to him each year. The residents say they have been unable to find out why and how the heir to the throne was able to secure preferential treatment from the government.

The prince declined to comment when asked whether he or his family had lobbied the government for the exemptions in the three acts.

However, the Guardian has established that Prince Charles and his mother were allowed to approve the contents of the three acts under an arcane parliamentary process known as Queen’s consent.

Through this mechanism, the monarch has vetted more than 1,000 parliamentary bills during her reign to check whether any of them affect the crown or her private interests.

Queen's consent is a little-known procedure whereby the government asks the monarch's permission for parliament to be able to debate laws that affect her. Unlike royal assent, which is a formality that takes place at the end of the process of drafting a bill, Queen's consent takes place before parliament is permitted to debate the legislation.

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prh47bridge · 10/02/2021 14:17

I see the Guardian is still pursuing its anti-monarchy agenda, which is clearly more important to its journalists than simple things like getting the facts right.

Anyone can see draft legislation before it is passed by parliament.

Anyone can lobby the government for changes to draft legislation.

The Queen exercises Queen's consent in accordance with advice from the government.

The suggestion that the Queen has used Queen's consent to force the government to make changes to proposed legislation is simply wrong.

In relation to the specific case mentioned here, the "special exemption" referred to applies to land owned by the government, government departments, the Crown Estate (revenues from which go to the government) and the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall (which are held in trust for the sovereign and the Prince of Wales respectively). It is normal for all of these to be grouped together and classed as Crown land for the purposes of legislation, so the Duchies automatically received exemption - the government was never going to give the right to buy to residents of properties on government land. I very much doubt that any lobbying was required at all. I note that the Guardian does not produce any evidence for their assertion that the Queen lobbied for changes. The private estates (Sandringham, etc.) are not covered by this exemption. If they were, I would see that as evidence of a change from royal lobbying. A standard exclusion for Crown lands is not evidence. I would be very surprised if such an exemption was not included from the very first draft of the legislation.

The standard of journalism on show is typified by the three cases quoted.

Case 1 carefully omits to say that the exemption covers all land owned by the government, Crown Estates and Duchies. It is completely wrong to say that residents of the Duchy of Cornwall were barred from buying their houses if the properties were deemed to have important architectural or historic features. That completely misunderstands (and hence misrepresents) the relevant portion of the Act which applies to all landlords (not just the Duchy of Cornwall) and is about the process to be followed if they want to retain powers of management of their estate after tenants acquire the freehold of their house. There is nothing in this part of the Act that bars anyone from buying their house.

Case 2 claims that Leasehold Reform, Housing and Urban Development Act 1993 was altered to give exemptions to specific properties in the Isles of Scilly and Dartmoor. No such modification was made. Dartmoor isn't mentioned in the Act at all. The Isles of Scilly are mentioned but only to make Part 1 of the act applicable there, i.e. to give tenants in the Isles of Scilly the same rights as tenants in England (with, of course, the same exemption for Crown land).

Case 3 which claims that the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 was modified to include houses in Newton St Loe in Somerset. No such modification was made. There is no mention of Newton St Loe or Somerset in the act. What actually happened is that the Crown authorities agreed that, notwithstanding the exemption in the Act, they would agree to allow residents to buy their properties or extend long leases unless the land is held inalienably (which means the Crown cannot sell it), there are particular security considerations, where properties are in or intimately connected with Royal Parks and Palaces, or where there is a long historic or particular association with the Crown. Newton St Loe, parts of Dartmoor and some other areas fall under this final definition. So, the Act was not altered to extend the exemption to these areas. The Act was not altered at all. Instead, the Crown agreed that it would not make use of the exemption in most areas, but the areas mentioned by the Guardian are amongst those where they would continue to take advantage of the exemption.

The journalists behind this article would have done well to consult a lawyer before writing such an ill-informed piece.

SerendipityJane · 10/02/2021 14:20

I see the Guardian is still pursuing its anti-monarchy agenda, which is clearly more important to its journalists than simple things like getting the facts right.

The simple fact of Monarchy is bad enough, without being told "anyone can be Queen".

When can we vote her out again ?

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prh47bridge · 10/02/2021 22:10

@SerendipityJane

I see the Guardian is still pursuing its anti-monarchy agenda, which is clearly more important to its journalists than simple things like getting the facts right.

The simple fact of Monarchy is bad enough, without being told "anyone can be Queen".

When can we vote her out again ?

No-one said anyone can be Queen. I certainly didn't say that. All I have done is pointed out that the Guardian story is rubbish.

It reads to me like some journalist has discovered Queen's consent, found a few privileges enjoyed by the Crown, put two and two together and made about 25. The reality as far as this latest story is concerned is that the residents concerned would almost certainly be in exactly the same position if the monarchy was abolished. The estates concerned would then belong to the government and would therefore be subject to the same exemptions. Given the history involved, it is unlikely the government would take a different position on the exemptions for these properties.

By all means attack the monarchy. I am not a huge supporter, although I marginally prefer a constitutional monarchy to a presidential system. However, as regular readers of my posts will know, I prefer discussions to stick to the actual facts.

Fuckingcrustybread · 10/02/2021 22:12

@SerendipityJane

I see the Guardian is still pursuing its anti-monarchy agenda, which is clearly more important to its journalists than simple things like getting the facts right.

The simple fact of Monarchy is bad enough, without being told "anyone can be Queen".

When can we vote her out again ?

You can't vote her out.
Fuckingcrustybread · 10/02/2021 22:14

I should have added @SerendipityJane if you think that the choice of the Monarch is put to a vote.
You really need to educate yourself at once.

LastTrainEast · 10/02/2021 22:29

Fuckingcrustybread yes we know that the queen is not subject to democratic rules. That I think was part of the point.

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