Abortion limit should stay at 24 weeks - do you feel different about abortion after having a baby?

[TheDullWitch]

It is the 40th anniversary of the abortion act and I do feel that there is a generation of 20-somethings who take this right for granted and are doing nothing whilst others seek to chip it away.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7059169.stm

I agree about contraception education and availability, yes, definitely.

I disagree that this is about sex education.
Our much higher abortion rates cant just be down to ignorance - we are not that backwards in our approach to these issues.
Personally, I think it comes from something much more endemic in our society as a whole, this innate belief, usually accurate, that no matter what, we will be fine.
We live in a very privileged part of the world - in every area of our lives we have choices, options. We are rarely condemned by our own actions with no chance of redemption.
Its the same thing that causes our wierd relationship with alcohol, binge-drinking and the ani-social behaviour that often follows, it is reflected in the sheer scale of individual debt in this country.
We are sold this line that we can have it all and do it all - because that is our right. And increasingly, all 'desirable' lifestyle choices carry sexual connotations or expectations.
Watch the adverts, the music channels, read any weekly magazine.
The over-commercialisation of our society is having pretty dire consequences.

Scaremyvile - have a look at this link that someone posted further down. It makes interesting reading. I agree with you to a point but I do think there is something peculiarly British about our attitude to sex that is responsible for the high level of teenage pregnancy

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/04/99/teen_pregnancy/319869.stm

Yes, I read that scary.
I still dont believe this is about education.
We have, at the very least, adequate sex eduction but I think that is superseded by an act now, think later type of attitude we seem to specialise in in this country.

I was pg as a teen and, from my experience it wasn't lack of education that contributed. I was probably the most unlikely person in my year to get pg; bright, bit geeky and too sensible for my own good. The problem was, like most teens I thought I was indestructable and it wouldn't happen to me.

There are some parents who are campaigining to have no sex education in school whatsoever - this is "something that should be left to their parents"

What chance to the kids at those schools have?

You know, I actually think all this "I'ts down to a lack of education" stuff is not very helpful.
I think it further discourages the importance of personal responsibility.

Sceremy - I think you are right, it isn't just sex ed. It is much deeper. To do with self esteem, self respect, choosing to make choices in your life because you think those choices will give you a good life, disaffection...the whole lot.

In my local area there is a very very high birthrate amongst young teenage girls. A strong cultural rejection of both contraception and abortion, coupled with economic and educational disaffection and resigned acceptance that they will have a baby early like thier mum, like thier gran..and that there will be no man on the scene to offere support.

This needs tackling as much as the contraception.

But none of it can be addressed in isolation, and refusing to talk about sex, human beings and relatiosnhips with children doesn't help.

Agree Blu - god, if it was just about better sex ed, how straight forward that would be to fix.
These issues are all so deep-rooted, I couldn't even begin to imagine how to redress things.

scaremyvile - storming post ( 16.28), every word of it is spot on. Could not agree more.

Yes, it's a society-wide thing, same as anti-social behaviour.

Prettybird, are there really parents campaigning for no sex-ed at all? That's all very well for kids whose parents do talk to them, but what about the ones who don't? blimey.

SueBarooeeooeeooooo - yes, I do know of somewhere where the parents are actively campaigning for no sex education whatsoever. It is a caothic school - but your point is still very much the issue - what abut those kids whose parents aren't or won't talk to them?

You can't stick your head in the sand say "but the church says you shouldn't be having sex so therefore the school shouldn't be talking about it"

But that's a whole different (althugh linked) debate to the one here!

The topics you miss when you Home-Ed!

Struggles to comprehend why anyone would think complete ignorance is a sensible educational option

I genuinely think that sexually active women should test every month if they have irregular periods. I did and I was using the pill and rarely had periods on it. I didn't want to be one of those people who became pregnant and didn't find out until 20 odd weeks. As it happens, about 21 weeks ago I did fall pregnant on the pill (the very same pill that has protected me for the last five years failed for no good reason) and I found out at 5 weeks that I was pregnant. It enabled me to make an informed decision without time pressure and I took a good 5 weeks to think, research and assess my life and situation.

It takes 3 minutes per month to pee on a stick and would certainly cut a proportion of the late term for "lifestyle reasons" abortions. I do think pregnancy tests should be free, like how you can collect condoms from clinics/GP etc.

Unplanned pregnancies will always happen until there is a 100% effective form of contraception and women deserve the right to choose whether to take these pregnancies to term. The Marie Stopes pdf on late abortion makes very interesting reading.

cl, i agree with you. one of the (numerous) reasons i never took to the pill was that if it hadn't worked, you wouldn't find out until it was too late. at least if you have a condom malfunction you can get the MAP.

I agree ClaphamLauren.

It would be great if you got pregnancy tests as part of your contraceptive prescription and they were available free and without hassle in every chemist and supermarket.

If you really dont want to become pregnant but are sexually active then monthly testing, not just whn you get worried, is one of the most responsible things you can do.

SueBarooeeooeeooooo - it is indeed mind boggling!

From what I understnad, it is just a small group of parents (who have extremely large families, although that shouldn't really come in to it and just shows my own prejudice ) - but they are trying to take over the Parent Council (Scoittish equivalent of the School Board - which fortunately has very little real power but in normal circumstances can have a lot of influence).

A full term baby is about as sentient as most dumb animals - yet many people have no compuncion in killing them, even though they suffer pain just as much as humans.

This may seem like a odd angle to come at it, but it is actually central to all philosphical debates about the 'right' to life based on things such as sentience, ability to feel pain, fear death, etc, which all mammals are capable of.

If someone believes humans are special becasue they are born in the image of god, or have been given life by god when animals haven't, then that is different, but the distinction is important.

i don't believe human life is more important bcause it is made in the image of God, i believe it is more important because of its great potential - potential for pain, intelligence, compassion, etc. I am still pro choice but think the potential of human life should be treated very, very seriously.

Don't know whether a little bit of light humour will be appreciated here, but...

Having spent about 2 hours explaining periods,conception, babies etc. to my DD1 she then later asked DH,

"Do you know what a period is Daddy?"

His reply after (his usual) long deliberation was...

"A moment in time"

Aaaagh

that's men for you.

young people are always talked about when it comes to unwanted pregnancies, but statistically is it them more than others?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but it does grate on me a bit, like whenever a baby is found abandoned, they always look for a young girl. one i heard about the other day was 34!

I think - will have to hunt it out - that the majority of women having abortions are women in steady relationships and who have children already - so mothers.

I used to be pro choice until I had my own children.I do think 24 weeks is far too late apart for medical reasons. Lowering the limit might force people into making decisions sooner rather than later. Alot more needs to be done to educate teenagers both girls and boys, not just about pregnancy and abortion but safe sex in general. At the end of the day its not difficult to get birth control if you really dont want a baby.
What I really cant understand is how anyone (except people who have to for medical reasons) could abort their baby at 24 weeks, the kicks and movements are so so strong by then.I could feel DD2 move at 17 weeks. Oh it makes me feel so sad