Do you back opt-out organ donation>

[eleusis]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7051235.stm

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I appreciate they are trying to save lives and that is of course a good thing. But, I think people should have to give consent for their organs to be removed, not consent to have them left in tact. There's just something creepy out thinking my organs will be taken away the second I am pronouncec dead. But, if you asked me if I'd be willing to donate my organs when I die I'd say yes of course. I guess I just want to choice to be mine (or my next of kin).

Why object to something because it could go wrong in a very samll number of cases? There will always be human error, it is sadly inevitable. But if we thought that about everything, nothing would ever get done or change.

Coleyboy, it's not a 'conspiracy theory', it's an unintended possible side-effect to a change in the system.

I am all for saving lives, and I 100% agree with good ideas about mentioning the issue at the GPs and other official places.

StIngoc - sorry, I'm not sure what you mean about the un-intended side effect.

"Sorry TeeJaye but how are you backing up this statement?"

LadyVictoriaOfCake's quote from uktransplant "90% of the population support organ donation but only 22% are registered". Of those 40% you mentioned who refuse, many will be because their loved ones were not on the register and they hadn't spoken about the subject, so didn't discover that in the actual event, they would have wanted their organs to be used. Whatever number that is, it's a shocking waste when it inevitably results in further deaths of people waiting for organs.

Regarding children, I mentioned the NI number in my post because I think the 'opt out' should only apply to adults, certainly at first.

But there are a number of reasons as to why relatives would refuse consent - the report doesn't look at reasons why except for the case where the relatives knew that the potential donor had strong objections. The report also doesn't seem to give data on how many of those were actually on the organ register?

3397 NOK were asked in the audit. 1367 didn't give consent and of these 206 were because the deceased had previously stated that they did not want to donate organs.

So the remainder, in excess of 1000, did not know their loved ones wishes, or over-rode them.

No I can't find a reference to that either LM, the number carrying cards or on the register. I'm not sure the online register existed then though.

Coleyboy, oh, ok, I just meant that a change in the the system would mean that bodies were the property of the state unless the person had opted out of that. That's a significant change, and some of the people who are ambivalent about the opt-out system are concerned about the possible ramifications of that.

LM, I haven't quoted a number because I have no clue but what I'm saying is any waste of organs is shocking because people are dying as a result. And don't forget, each and every person that dies who's organs are not used despite their unvoiced wishes, could have saved more than one life (essential organs) and eased the suffering of many others (non-essential and tissue).

opt out is best in my humble opinion - no good hanging on to the organs - not needed once one is dead. Apathy and inertia are enemies of the opt-in system and it should be countered.

I guess it is because at present the organ register isn't routinely consulted. A pity of course because it would help relatives to know that the potential donor was on it.

One unintended effect of a presumed consent arrangement would be the adverse publicity that could suuround a incident of human error. It would take much for some paper such as the Daily Mail to capitalise on the failings of the system and to terrify people into opting out - a decision made on the basis of something that might not recur but would have long term consequnces as people would be less likely to revoke their opt out.

Lack of NOK consent is only one of the reasons why organs weren't used. Issues of availibility and training of the medical staff contribute to a fair greater number of "wasted" organs. I think it would be better to address those issue before trying to make the less educated in the country jump through hoops to have their wishes addressed.

I think anything and everything should be done LM. Any wasted organ, for whatever reason is a tragedy when people are dying waiting for them.

Why should children not be included here. There are plenty of kids that need transplants and one could argue their need is greater as they would have a longer life to lead afterwards...and they didn't trash their organs through drinking or smoking!

A child would probably see the sense in donating, kids seem to see straight to the heart of most issues without any conspiracy theories or 'religious' guff getting in the way of helping other people.

Children should still get transplants!

I think including them in an opt-out system is a bit more difficult because:

1. Could their choice be made legally binding because they're minors and

2. They are under the responsibility of two adults which makes things a little more tricky.

If we were to go to an opt-out system, I would prefer to see minors remain with an opt-in system.

I support opt-out. I have always been pro-donation but, like many others, was lazy about actually signing up and putting my money where my mouth was. Reading about LVOC and her DH's experience made me spend the 2-3 minutes it took to sign up.
chisigirl.

Lil, a lot of organs donation are based on size so organs suitable for children arent suitable for adults, i dont belive anyones need is greater than anothers.

parents/guardians would have to make the decision for their children until they are legally old enough to do it themselves.

btw a child at the age of 10 can refuse a transplant if they need one, as they are considered old enough to make the decision themselves, very hard thing to placeon a childs shoulders IMO.

uktransplant has on it somewhere an age of when children can make their own decision to register as well.

I have had 2 transplants and think opt out is the only way to go if this dreadful shortage is to be conquered.If you don't want to give I think you probably shouldn't recieve as I had always assumed that meant you fundamentally disagreed with the idea of organ replacement.It is an amazing gift and can bring a lot to the donor/family aswell as the recipient Love to peter misdee Hope you go on holiday xxx

I agree with an opt-out scheme. People still have the freedom to choose to opt-out.

I think a lot of people don't Opt-In because they can't be bothered/don't know how/don't know about it/haven't got round to it.

What is there to disagree with?

Lady Muck:
"Dh and I are both on the register and our NOK know our wishes. But I find it difficult to make a similar blanket decision for the dcs. Dh and I often travel for work, and the thought of having to consent to turning off life support for a dc before the other parent could get there would be immensely difficult for me (I'm just using this as a reason why I might not consent). The idea of this being a legal requirement frankly disturbs me."

If your child would be on life support, I would assume them either to be reasonable stable at the time (whilst still may not have a chance of recovery), and therefore there is no rush to make a decision anyway...as I would think that no matter what situation, this is not about "robbing" anyone precious time, but once the decision is made to turn of the life support then everything will be put in motion....so, no one would rush anyone or expect a loved one to go without there time of good byes.....

Also....if you rather make the decision about your children at the time...then opt out for them, but if the situation is "right" (not that it could ever be if you loose your child) you could still agree to organ donation, I would assume...

DH and I talked about this in lenght, as I am on teh registre and he isn't (for personal reasons, but he wouldn't expect an organ neither), however, we did say, that should anything happen to our Kids, that would mean making this decision, we would agree to organ donation (unless, by that time our Kids personally would have told us otherwise)

ladymuck. if its any way of changing your mind, we belive that dh heart came from someone who was being 'switched off' that night, hence the long wait from when we were told to be on standby to getting the go ahead. the hospital do give time to let people say their goodbyes, they dont rush in and grab organs without doing this. its a rather delicate subject i know. but one that is very close to my own heart.

btw, when I said about children...what I meant was, that a child , of course, should not be discriminated against ,because of their own parents wishes...i.e., if both opt out, this is not the childs problem...they should still be receiving an organ...jsut think the opt out registre might be harder with children....of course, one would hope that parents/nok wold decide for organ donation...but think an opt out might be more difficult....or it should be a non-permanent one...i.e. if parents are truely against organ donation and wish to opt out, it's natural that they would feel the same for their child, so, teh child then will be asked when entering adult hood if they would like to opt out or not....

LVOC....and I believe that is the usual method....

If I recall this correctly (and I could be wrong, of course), but I believe that the decision to donate organs has to be made before death occurs (oxygen supply to organs, etc..), therefore usually the donors are in a stable (as ventilated, but braindead) condition...so, they are dead, but their organs are kept alive....that sounds horrible and morbid...and I am not explaining that well...

yes that is true. the patient needs toi be brain stem dead in most cases (i think corneas and other parts done need this) and with a beating heart. ojnce they heart stop beating the organs begin to fill with fluid.

it is rather horrible, i know, but without someones very generous gift I wouldnt have my husband home with me laughing at the TV