Maggie Thatcher is a 'conviction politician'

[EffiePerine]

Eh?

This puzzles me on many, many levels

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6993269.stm

She is a conviction politician isn't she? I thought the term meant having a belief (conviction) and pursuing it without any form of political compromise or counting the cost.

Whether you agree, disagree or remain ambivalent about her, she surely was a conviction politician.

She should be convicted, never mind conviction.

Theres nothing to be applauded in having convictions if those very beliefs result in utter misery. Nothing.

LOL at being convicted.

Now don't get me wrong - don't agree with her at all - but I am sure she is a conviction politician.

That's what they do. Push things through relentlessly.

Isn't Robert Mugabe a conviction politician?

Margaret Thatcher is a foul person. Nothing to do with her gender and being a "great woman". What rot.

She took from the poor to give more and more and more to the rich. Simple as that.

No, I don't think Robert Mugabe is a conviction politician. He is a foul despot.

Mrs Thatcher set out an agenda that she believed in and followed it to the letter. She hardly ever veered off that course. Whatever the human cost.

There are many bad things that she did. Of all of them, the thing that made me most sad was her attitude to Nelson Mandela. She couldn't recognise a sea-change under her nose, just stuck to the same old tired dogma.

Her biggest failuer imo was that she was sucha conviction politician- 'the Lady is nto for turning'- well surely it is a amrk of eprsonal strength if you can look at yourself and your actions / beliefs, reassess them and admit imperfection? I certainly regard it as such.

I found all the pictures of GB and Maggie in teh papers today made my skin crawl, what on earth is he doing? Did he not see what happened to those of us who lived in the areas that were wrecked under her? I lived neither in the North nor Wales ten, but in a smallt own which totally relied on inustry and was very much isolated in that within its area- I watched the companies collapse, dad having to sack several of his brothers before being given his cards himself; pensions that callapsed not because of GB's policies, but because of buy outs under her Prime Misnistership that left thousands of famillies with no income in their retirement (including my parents) despite saving all their lives. The onlys aving grace imo is that this woman is so elderly now- so a comeback is so unlikely. personallyt hough I would have never played host to her.

Have read through the thread again. I had missed Mother Inferior's post and feel a need to applaud it.

Yeats?

Has no-one said yet how canny he is being? Of course Thatcher was a scourge and an evil thing, and I oft think of the Elvis Costello song "Tramp the Dirt Down" song when she comes to mind.

But GB is a professional politician. He is busy usurping David Cameron as LEader of Tories, as well as Labour. He is cleverly, in my opinion, presenting himslef as the "One Nation" man that the 'old Tories' love so much. Canny.

Canny?

If he's playing games at this early stage and trying to win voters by deception it doesn't augur well imho.

oh he's a prof. politician - they all play games. It's part of the job description.

Desi - you are soo up your own arse. A thatcherite trying to claim some moral authority??? Don't make me larrrfff!!

I think Brown needs to be careful, and I like him a lot.

Now I think he is a 'conviction' politician. Hes a man of integrity and belief rooted in a true socialist background. I think his integirty has surprised and won him plaudits in these early days.

However, I think hes on dodgy ground courting Thatcher. Most pple will never forgive what she did. I can see what hes trying to do - to take that srapping element out of politics - to try and push together for the good, but I don't think starting with Thatcher was a good move at all.

Desi I think you miss the point with 'oh she fucked off the moners'- she completely abandoned entire villages and towns to nothing, at all- no hope, futtures, anything. That DOES matter, not the fact that they were miners as such, just that entire famillies and communities were wrecked. Oh and yes, I could vote under Thatcher (just), and I ws politically active. Writing poeple off as oh you weren't around then- doesn't make for fair debate.

'I blame the Thatcher years for a large part of the social problems we have in Britain today.'

Yeah, 10 years of Labour rule has nothing to do with it at all

I agree with JT and will be giving MN a huge body swerve when poor old Maggie meets her demise. I don't think I'll be able to stand it.

From Tramp The Dirt Down, on the Spike album from Elvis Costello, circa 1987. Very Controversial at the time, as the evil fucker was still Prime Minister.

"I saw a newspaper picture from the political campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child's
Face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
Coming down on that child's lips

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When england was the whore of the world
Margaret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
The black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
Haunted by every tiny detail
'Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
All she thought of was betrayal Instant Song Lyrics

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his
Only son
And how it's only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say "thank you" straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
Filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and
Maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
'Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

I think it's pathetic.

That's no misnomer you have there, isn't it?

lol at Peachy

I can't help noticing that you invariably think I've missed the point ....

And thanks for the Costello lyrics, Pan!

I much prefer 'My Funny Valentine', if I'm honest

'I blame the Thatcher years for a large part of the social problems we have in Britain today.'

"Yeah, 10 years of Labour rule has nothing to do with it at all"

I didn't say that - no government is perfect - but in my opinion the seeds of the massive class divides (not working-middle-upper, but underclass-middle-upper) and social breakdown we have now were sown by the Thatcher years. So I stand by my opinion.

I have no great wish to see her dead though. She's a harmless relic now, it's her legacy that I'm against.

And I prefer "Veronica" from the same album, about a woman, sits quietly knowing that she isn't mentally ill, whilst all those around her thinks she is......

you forget Wonderland by Simply Red Pan [rolls eyes]

If I were a lyricist I reckon I could come up with a corker for the Blair years.

Twice, Desi!! Is that really invariably??

Honestly!

NB - go girl!! Should be a synch!!

Well, OK ... but it feels like more

Ah poppet