Anyone else left feeling really concerned about violence in the UK after last weeks news?

[pastalady]

Why is this happening so much?

In the last week or so in the news there has been a man killed by youths after he confronted them because they were haning around outside his home and he was concerned that they were vandalising cars. I believe he was kicked to death and died of a brain heomorrage. He was father. Barely a week later, a man confronts another bunch of youths because they were throwing rubbish into his sisters car. He is attacked by them and dies in hospital. A short while ago there was a grandad who died of a heart attack after youths in park started stoing him.

Is this country becomming more violent or does it just look that way? What is happennng to 14/15/16/17 kids to make them do things like that? Do these stories prove that its now too dangerous for people to try and stop anti-social behaviour on their own?

actually ive had a rethink on this... and i think that if i felt as a young woman that the media awareness/coverage of violence was the tip of the iceberg then... it probably is still. and thus that; yes, it is getting worse. which is very depressing.

as always (well, mostly) i agree very much with Blu and Custy.

I am concerned about it, yes.

Last week a colleague of mine told me how her DS (13) was punched in the face by a gang of teenagers while walking through a park. They picked on him because he was alone and wearing untrendy trainers, apparently.

He was bullied at school because his bike was an old second hand one, he had his tyres slashed on several occasions.

My colleague has brough up ehr son the way I would like to bring up my DS - to enjoy a life of outdoor pursuits (walking, cycling etc), good manners, respect for others, that material things are not the be-all. He doesn;t play computer games or watch tv endlessly, they are very active and do great things at weekends etc

And by bringing my DS up like that am I subjecting him to a future of bullying & torment if he doesn;t fit in?

Absolutely agree I am sure this lies with the parents but not sure why apparent big leap from our own generation - obviously bullying went on then but not to the same level (kids weren;t killed )and only within peer groups - kids wouldn;t have attacked someone of their parents' generation, woudl they?

Frayedknot, you bring up your son how you want. You also send him to martial arts classes or at the very least, self defence classes. That's not to encourage fighting but at least to know that he can hold his own if he gets any strife from morons.

Amen Custardo

www - agree with that philosophy.

Its not just the young thought, is it? Only a couple of weeks ago, a 76 year old pensioner was found guilty of stabbing a man in a pub not far from me (he got a suspended sentence, a £1000 fine and a ban from pubs in 10-mile radius). Then there was the 83 year-old woman in Swansea who was locked up for 6 months for verbally abusing her neighbours. Adults can be just as anti-social as teenagers, yet adult misbehaviour does not get nearly as much media attention. Perhaps the older generation should set youngsters a better example.

I work in the evenings out in the community as a home care worker and have to go past gangs of kids on some quite rough estates.
My car's been scratched loads of times and i'm just waiting for the first knifed tyre.
I'm going to self defence classes for women and i'm going to carry a small metal bar with me (6 inches) but in the right hands it can be very effective.
On E-bay you can get a special spray that can fit in the palm of your hand and it covers your assailant in bright red paint that takes days to come off.
If it gets any worse i'm going to have to stop evening work as i don't get paid enough.
Just fed up of totall strangers having a go at me when i'm doing my job.
AB

I'm originally from one of the places involved in the violence in the last two weeks and I'm returning to live there afer Christmas.

We are currently living in Sydney with a view to emigrating.

There's violence here in Australia as well, though it's more like the sort of troublemaking we got in the UK thirty years ago (high jinks that get out of hand).

I'm sure Australia ill go the same way within 20 years, the cities certainly. A guy in Melbourne was shot/stabbed for sticking up for a woman in the stree in broad daylight a couple of months ago.

Despite everything I'm not sure emigrating is the answer - you then deprive your children of the family structure you wanted them to have.

I guess it may be getting worse, but at the same time, have you noticed that there are definite media trends?

ie a year ago it was all "happy slapping" and you'd get several incidents reported every week. Now you never hear about it but I'm sure it goes on. Then it's all about knife crime...Then guns... I know that many incidents go unreported for various reasons; there was a fatal shooting a few streets away from me which never made the news at the time; lots don't. My sister's boyfriend was stabbed on his 17th birthday - despite working in the newsroom on the MEN at the time I couldn't get the story out there. Depends on whether the mood is to downplay violence in Manchester, or to hold it up as an example in the national press.

I almost started a similar thread myself. My dream job came up, just north of London about 2 weeks ago. I am in Germany at the moment - frankly, I just couldn't push my application further, because I can't bear the idea of coming back to the UK. It isn't just the violence, it is how the community deals with it - there IS no community. You really notice the lack when you live in a country with a strong sense of community (annoying though that is at times). I just can't face going back to poverty, no public transport, anti-smacking hysteria coupled with a violent society, huge gap between rich and poor, dirty streets.
And the mock chav hunt - am I the only person who found that disgusting? And I went to university with these sort of people, so I was aware of this kind of thing. Just that you can't believe it still happens when you are out in the real world.

I know it is August, but the news from the UK is just appalling.

I think we may be heading towards a South African style of real class/cultural polarisation where those who can afford it end up in exclusive gated communities and those who cannot are ghetto-ised and therefore the divisions are not only perpetuated but also magnified. I have lived in London all my life and agree with pretty much all that has been said . I too think about emigration.

I have always held so called liberal/left wing views regarding social matters but frankly I just thank God that we as a family have enough money to pay for education, pay to move away, pay to escape. But people who don't have the money are basically fucked.

The gated communities are already here - where my dad lives near Romford a new developement has the social housing (part of the planning requirement) gated off from the private, and with separate access roads.

I think a big problem is the lack of positive role models. What is the point of trying to promote a balanced attitude to drink when the best footballers and cricketers are off their faces? Why bother asking kids to abide by the law when drink driving and brawling is everyday behaviour for England's millionaire footballers? I don't think kids on the street have no ambition, it is that their expectations are so unrealistic - they see Jade Goody and think that all they have to do is get on reality TV and they will be minted. And how many youth projects in London concentrate on producing rap music for example - not evryone can find a job in the music industry.

And as for magazines like FHM, don't get me started. Feminists have won? Do me afavour. That's why a mnetter recently posted about her dd getting her kit off on Facebook recently - it's the only way girls think they have any value.

As someone who lives in one of the areas of London affected by violence, can I just emphasise that it is still a teeny tiny minority of teenagers who behave like this. We have had three especially high-profile murders happen locally, and members of the community of all ages have been shocked, attended meetings etc. FWIW, it is often these young men who help me with my buggy when I'm struggling on the bus.

I don't think things have got worse in recent weeks. DH is a detective for the met in a neighbouring borough. The number of murders they have each month remains reasonably constant. Last month none of DH's cases got in the news. This month 2 have, as they were "media flavour of the month".

There are problems with a minority, and I agree wholeheartly with custardo's post about children needing strong parental, or other adult guidance from a young age. Some of the young people DH sees at 14-15 seem very difficult to help, and one wonders what could have been done if their families had been offered help at a much earlier age.

I do think we need to offer help to inner city families before these kids start getting into trouble. We talk about parental guidance, but some of these parents are just kids themselves, and with the best will in the world haven't a clue where to start.

I live in hope.

It's August - the traditional 'silly season', when Parliament is disbanded for the summer and major news is thin on the ground. That's why so much of this is in the news. It's the same reason why the tabloids ran endless front pages about a non-existent shark in Cornwall. I would guess these things always happen, though of course, being the school holidays there are more kids on the streets. I don't believe you can draw any conclusions about society as a whole from newspaper reporting in August.

Out of interest, where is a nice place to live? Any thoughts? I'm always thinking about moving/emigrating but I can never decide where to...

I'm lucky enough to live somewhere nice. Cars and scout huts getting vandalised make the local paper.

Where?! Where is that?! Greenland?

Nope. And you can get to London in an hour and a half, Cambrideg in 40 mins. Good schools, low unemployment, rural area. House prices okay compared with a lot of commuterland. People not too snotty, thriving real nappy/bfeeding scene if that's your thing, Fairtrade shops and Waitrose. I live near Saffron Walden in NW Essex.

Downside: We're in the shadow of Stansted Airport. TBh it doesn't bother me but the area is ripe for developement so it ain't gonna last.

What makes me laugh ironically about this is that on Friday lunch I was writing a follow up post to my 1st post, about how there is sod all to do around here for older children. I live in a cul-de-sac, there are two further cul-de-sacs either side of mine, and these lead onto the main road. Next to the main road is an abandoned pup. I was posting about how the is nothing for the older kids to do, parents at work during the school holidays and the 14-17 year olds have nothing to do and end up setting fire to the pub.
Drive home on Friday and cannot get into my street because the pub is on fire AGAIN. 3rd time since the school holidays began, this was a big one though. Next to the pub is a petrol station which surely must be getting pissed at having to keep shutting down for safety reasons everytime the bloody pub is on fire.