Anyone else left feeling really concerned about violence in the UK after last weeks news?

[pastalady]

Why is this happening so much?

In the last week or so in the news there has been a man killed by youths after he confronted them because they were haning around outside his home and he was concerned that they were vandalising cars. I believe he was kicked to death and died of a brain heomorrage. He was father. Barely a week later, a man confronts another bunch of youths because they were throwing rubbish into his sisters car. He is attacked by them and dies in hospital. A short while ago there was a grandad who died of a heart attack after youths in park started stoing him.

Is this country becomming more violent or does it just look that way? What is happennng to 14/15/16/17 kids to make them do things like that? Do these stories prove that its now too dangerous for people to try and stop anti-social behaviour on their own?

Those last two tragic cases both happened in S London, neither of them that far from where we live pastalady
The boys stoning the man and his son playing cricket in the park were children at the time of the attack, some of them only 11.
Their parents should have known where they were and who they were with.

Not really, but I'm used to living in places that are much more violent.

It's not just the last couple of weeks - there have been some terrible things happening all this year (teenagers being shot dead etc)

not really. where i grew up i was always aware of much more violence around than was ever reported on the news. therefore i believe that what you hear in the news is a skewed overview of what is happening in general.

so no, i am not more concerned this week than any other.

That's very true Mercy. They are all so young, that's what's so scary.

What worries me is that there had been a steady decline in things youngsters can do.
No area seems to have decent places where the kids can go and do things in a group and whenever anybody tries to start stuff, a lot of people in the area petition and complain.
My husband wanted to set up an "arcade" type place, not for money but where people could buy chips and play games, bit of food, few tables, pool table and the like, and everybody in the area protested.
The result is that the kids have no where to go and end up on the streets, in a gang, where kicking stuff about and getting into trouble is the only thing to do.
I'm not saying in any way that it justifies what has happened, but I cant help but thinking that if the youngsters had somewhere to go and things to do then perhaps there would be less stuff going off on the streets.

diversionary activities ar just that - diversionary. what this country really needs is investment in parenting. Moral standards. right and wrong. they are not fluid standrds. they arn't.

Diversioanry activities until this country reclaims a certain standard of decency.

diversionary until this country affords teenagers/pre-teens the hope and the means and the aspirations to participate fully in a functioning society.

i am the parent of three teenagers. 2 of which are distinctly average. education was/is something they had to participate in - not something
they wanted to do.

but they do have aspirations, the have hope , they have role modles and kick ass parents who say get a job - get an apprenticeship - get a job. not getting a job isn't an option. your descision in life is where are you gonna work? and how much for?

my children have grown up in an estate environment where the police helicopers chasig the stolen cars were a regular occurance - and source of entertainment..as were the fireengines to gathered large crowds as they put out the burning wrecks of the stolen cars. all such good fun ? 7 miles away from the 'gunchester' and mosside crew we are hearing so much about recently.

if parents don't have the fortitide and bloody mindedness to guide their children through this then this will continue.

the culture needs to change. fiddy cent americanization of english society through mtv. just entertainment in my house - not banned and MTV is certainly not my paralell footloose (ban the music) but when your parents give you nothing in way of a role model values, expectations, punishment, praise, love, consistancy anr stict rules as to how you live your life - then this is the next thing to infamy - you get a rep, you get a group of friends, you get a record - help with your rep, you sell some drugs for easy money, something gets violent

but its not wrong. its on tv, parents never said it was - THIS is the culture.

this culture needs to change.

parents need to change it. ALL parents need to go on a series of courses throughout their childs life.

All these stories just make my DH badger me to emigrate.

One of the most disturbing things is the number of violent attacks by girls. We didn't use to have girl thugs, did we? And some of them are incredibly brutal, kicking people in the face, hitting them with iron bars, etc.

I've not read all of these posts but my view is that its a basic lack of respect for others (people + objects). We 'never had anywhere to go' when we were growing up, but we didn't go vandalising things.
I work in a high school ( a 'nice' one !) & I see the way that some of the kids behave & am apalled. When i was at school, if a member of staff came down the corridor, you moved out of the way - now you just get shoulder charged with the rest, doors let go on you etc. Even petty things like saying please & thankyou seem to being forgotten. I actually make a point if a pupil asks to borrow something, of reminding them ! Maybe that makes me an old fuddy duddy or a grumpy old woman

I am exposed to violence on a regular basis in my job but I also am very disturbed by the increase in violent street crime and the use of guns/knives. I was chatting about it with my colleagues and there was a consensus that such crime is definitely on the rise - hence do not think media is distorting the truth.

I agree, it is very complex, but a lot of the complexities converge in the same people / communities, don't they?

Our organisation runs projects with young people and in the last week we have excluded two for violence. it is no co-incidence that these are the children of mothers (no father apparant) who then wait outside and physically attack the mothers of the chjildren thier daughters hit. The only support these mothers give is to re-inforce the violence thier children display. They act like tribal gangs, or gurad dogs, 'loyal' to thier violent children rather than parents such as Custy advocates.

Priorities are skewed. 'Respect' is demanded for all the wrong things, and based on vague impressions from violent music etc. Aspirations are based on unreaslitic pressures to 'need' vastly over-priced consumer goods. People feel alienated by almost everything. 2 teenagers shot by other teenagers in Brixton and stockwell in the last month.

It depresses me immensly.

But I do feel sure that my DS, nor the children of any other S London Mn-ers i have met will ever commit crimes like these. They might be a bit risque in thier teenage years, they might get jobs in the meeja and snort a bit of coke. But their priorities and morals are being constructively instilled to the good. Just like the majority of teenagers we don't hear from. But honestly - next to my office 40 teenagers from inner-city chaotic brixton are creating the most fantastic work with a spirit of co-operation and youthful joy.

custy, as always I agree with you.

There's too much of the "it's someonelses problem" rather than parents accepting responsibility for their own children. "I don't know where my kids go at night" is a common one, why the fuck not?

I also think that there is no accountability for children and they know it. They know all their rights probably better than most of us do. The police are also partly responsible. I have reported crimes comitted by children before (shoplifting vandalism etc only to be told well nothing will happen because they are too young - almost as though they can't be bothered with the paperwork when nothing ultimately will come of it)

I have 3 boys all under 3 and I worry about the future. I am teaching them to respect others and themselves but as they grow up and go out on their they won't experience an awful lot of respect so I do worry whether the values I am trying to instill in them will stay with them.

I agree with custardo, blu and others...

These kids cannot be getting any/the right kind of guidance from their parents, surely?

but I don't know what the answer to that is, how you can get parents to take the right kind of responsibility for their children rather than encouraging their violence...it must be cyclical, so you have to break the cycle somehow.

I do feel it must be hard if these kids feel they have nothing to aim for in terms of decent jobs, apprenticeships etc

I live in South London, and the recent goings on have scared me...think I'd like to move!

I agree with custardo in that it's a cultural thing.. I'm not sure how to change it though, cos the people who need to do the changing aren't the thuggish kids on the street but their parents. These are people in their 30s and 40s I'm assuming, so it's not like the education system can help them. Youth centres and something for young people to do can go a long way to giving these children something to do other than sitting on a rec ground getting shitfaced and beating someone up. But if they're not getting any support and motivation from home, they're unlikely to change their lives. I'm at a loss as to what we can do to change that? Do we forget that generation and work on the next ones... ie the under 10s?

Mrs Mar is it a cycle though don't forget that those kids now will be having kids of their own and perpetuating the problem.

I don't know what the answer is.

I know, it's a case of deciding when to intervene... where do you start?

god knows.

There are some young boys at dd's school who already have little respect for females. I'm talking about 8 years + here. It's difficult to know what to do when children come from a cultural background where girls and women are seen as secondary members of society.

Even with my own ds who is only 3½ I can see that a decent male figure/role model is important in his life. For a variety of reasons.

I blame it all in its the "it's a phase" culture, we are told repeatedly to dismiss red flags about their behaviour with the words "oh they will grow out of it" but what people doesn't seem to see is that if problems are not tackled they grow out of the phase into something worse.

I think last week was particularly bad, but unfortunately representative of what is going on everyday in many places.

I agree it's depressing.
What do people think about Rudolph Guiliani's (sp?) broken window approach? It's where you crack down on the small things, like broken windows that signify people don't care for a neighbourhood, graffiti on subways etc, with the belief that if you make these matter then stuff doesn't escalate as easily. I'm prob not explaining it very well but I do wonder if we ought to be cracking down on the small stuff which left unchecked leads on to bigger stuff (i.e. start off with assaults on teachers, kids moves on to assaults on others etc)

Some parents just dont parent and expect that schools will do the job. But how is a teacher supposed to "bring up" 30 other peoples kids? Anyway for many its too late by the time they hit school.

I live on the edge of a "challenging" estate and some parents (ie our grim neighbours) behave like kids. Their dc have no structure at all, stay up until all hours, different people drifting in and out of the flat at all hours. None work but hang around all day having violent arguments with each other and getting stoned. Their 2 year old is never taken out. I rarely see her. What chance does the poor child have coming from that environment?