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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Justine in the Telegraph

41 replies

juuule · 18/07/2007 22:01

Dodgy ground, there, Justine

OP posts:
PestoMonster · 19/07/2007 12:53

I liked the photo of you and your dcs in the paper yesterday btw.

BigGitDad · 19/07/2007 13:07

UQD, if that picture is Justine, will you put her on your top five laydees list now?

foxinsocks · 19/07/2007 13:09

I'm more shocked that she's come out as an Arsenal fan . I think I need to get her into therapy now.

BigGitDad · 19/07/2007 13:11

Gooner as well? Deffo top five! can talk about the loss of Thierry Henry whilst on the beach...

BBBBasilisk · 19/07/2007 13:15

shucks - there was me thinking it was my parenting forum.

newgirl · 19/07/2007 13:19

thought it was pretty fair account of what we talk about on here tbh

there have been lots of threads recently about dads working too long and juggling etc

SaintGeorge · 19/07/2007 16:32

120%? Did you really put 120% or was that subbed in?

That one will have the pedantic mathematicians coming after you Justine.

JoolsToo · 19/07/2007 16:44

at 'rack' - several times!

UnquietDad · 19/07/2007 16:54

Onviously Justine had just been watching The Apprentice. "I'm gonna give 120 per cent, Sralan. 24/7, Sralan."

JustineMumsnet · 19/07/2007 21:34

Oh you're all so mean - I'm hanging up my typewriter. (Mind you it not as bad as in Gina week when everyone rubbished my BEIGE NOT WHITE trousers and commented on how "tired" I looked.)

morningpaper · 19/07/2007 21:39

BEIGE

snort

It's a good article, I agree with everything except obviously it is MY parenting forum

ThisIsDavinaPleaseDoNotSwear · 19/07/2007 21:41

Why dodgy ground juuule, it was pretty spot on actually?

juuule · 20/07/2007 10:02

Well, it seems I?m out of step with Mumsnet on this one.
Justine did make a few points that I agree with. But this article seems to be just another voice added to the many to get both parents out to work. Maybe I?ve misunderstood but that?s how it seemed to me.
Why did I find it unsettling and sad.
Because while there are people who need to work to survive, there are lots of people who work to maintain a lifestyle.
I have been in the situation where I was balancing a career, childcare, homelife. I didn?t like the effect it was having on our family. So, after discussions with dh, I gave up my career, we cut back on many things and lived off one income. It was quite a difficult adjustment. Obviously, it?s personal opinion and people make their own choices about the things that are important to them. We decided that it was more important for our family for the children to have a stable, settled home with less ?stuff? than the madness which was juggling everything.

Of course Justine recognises this type of situation to some extent here:
?Of course they wanted to, and recognised the importance of spending some time with their children and when the choice is either a 70-hour working week and a shedload of "bad mother"-related guilt, or being sidelined by their boss?
But then continues with
?, they chose to spend even more time with their children than they originally bargained for.?
As though spending more than an allotted amount of time with your children is something most people would like to avoid.

But this is my biggest bugbear
?and making childcare more affordable - tax deductible would be the obvious place to start.?.
More tax-payer funded non-parental childcare. Perhaps it would be better if all parents received childcare funding as part of the family allowance and then decided which childcare to spend it on.
I get so frustrated, sad and angry with the seeming constant push in this country for our children to be put into childcare at the earliest age possible and the seeming intent to divide families. But what irritates me even more is how people seem to have been conned into believing that this is the best way for families. How is it? More affordable childcare? Families should be supported so that they can care for their own children. We are going along with this idea that it?s okay to need two incomes just to live. The push for more childcare supports that. I don?t know how to reverse the tide but I do think that the way things are going is isolating many children from their families and can?t be good for society as a whole.
Our family made our choice for one parent to work caring for the children. We cut our cloth and lived accordingly. For families where both parents choose to work why should they have their childcare subsidised by gov?t? They make their choice and should get on with it the same as us. In those cases, either all childcare (parental or otherwise) should receive the subsidies or none.

The children being ?marshalled? doesn?t describe my children. For one, we don?t have the money to be taking part in classes here, there and everywhere. They do go out the front door and play with friends.

This part
?So where are we going wrong? I think the concerns of Mumsnetters are a clue. Dads have always been allowed to work long hours and nobody has worried much?
I just don?t understand the relevance of.

And Slightlymadspider,
?LOL at
My four-year-old recently said to me that if he were very rich he'd buy the whole family presents - ........ and I'd be presented with... wait for it... a new computer - because "that's all you do, Mum".?
I don?t find that funny at all, I think it?s sad. The fact you think it?s funny shows how little we actually listen to our children.

I haven?t put this very well, I know, but I think people will get the gist of what I mean. Maybe I?ve made some sweeping generalisations linked to my own personal situation but I think Justine did a similar thing with the article.

OP posts:
Cammelia · 20/07/2007 10:07

I think the article is very good Justine

I think it touches on a point that I've always found very intersting about British society, that people here seem to make much more of the idea of having children being a "lifestyle choice" and therefore comes under the the "you chose it you take the consequences" banner.

Whereas in some other Westernised countries the family may be seen as completely integral, indeed maybe the main point, of society.

Cammelia · 20/07/2007 10:10

I think Justine was arguing the opposite case Juuule

FlameDelacour · 20/07/2007 10:10

I think I understand what you mean... The houses costing 2 people's wages now thing was what got to me, as it is right - there is no way we can afford anywhere of our own without both of us working full time in well paid jobs (with no childcare costs). Bringing the housing prices down is a happier way to do it than give me the childcare, but I have no idea how you would go about that.

The whole building more affordable housing is no good as all they are building are pokey little flats. Proper old fashioned houses with gardens are what is needed for a family, not a 3rd floor flat with no room to move and nowhere to play outside

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