"Single mothers with secondary school children should seek work" - BBC news this am.

[mumblechum]

What does everyone think? Apparently 70% of single parents already work, and a third of those who don't have a good reason not to, eg have a child with a disability.

My first response (have always worked at least pt) is "of course they should, the lazy buggers", but a 12 year old child can't really be left to fend for themselves EVERY day after school, can they, and I don't suppose you could get a childminder to look after them for just 1.5 hours a day.

My own experience is that my ds (year 7) does need a fair bit of tlc still, especially with all the upheaval of changing schools, more work, making new friends etc.

What do you reckon?

but they haven't said they should seek full-time work. I am a single mother and I work, I will adapt my hours, changing jobs if I have to, to fit arond my ds' school hours.

So from October next year will there be this fabled 'wraparound' childcare then? Or is the government going to force employers to have jobs which fit with school hours and holidays?

I'm a single mum and I work. But I earn enough to make it worthwhile for me to do so. If I were on minimum wage there really wouldn't be much point.

As desiderata said - the government want it both ways - they want us to work, yet prioritise looking after our children. It doesn't add up.

It's all linked in with the Extended Schools thing isn't it.

I don't see it being up and running by 2008 or 2010. Not in this area anyway.

What they do here in Germany after deciding tougher measures were needed is they oblige everyone who is out of work on benefits to spend 9 months on a work scheme - working 30-42 hours a week (either unpaid or in some cases they get 1 Euro an hour - but it goes on childcare then of course if they have dc).

The idea is no-one who has dc 3+ or is somehow unable to work due to a disability has to be occupied full-time. I think the idea is to use the stick rather than the carrot.

If you don't turn up for those jobs, your benefits get cut by 30 percent for 3 months. Then they'll arrange another job of that type, if you don't comply the second time with one of these schemes, benefits get cut a further 30 percent until they're cut altogether.

oops should say UNLESS they're disabled - obviously! THey're not THAT dragonian!

What they're discussing here because they think the system is still too soft, is forcing mothers with dc under 3 to go back to work at least part-time, so they want to develop creches to make that possible. The idea is that mothers who have been out of work for 3 years have practically no chance of getting back into the work-force later, so they should be "helped" back in a lot earlier.

what happens when a child is off sick from school? this happens to teenagers as well.

ssandy- I've heard that in germany home schooling is banned.

You'd have to pull a sickie....

but what if they were at home for weeks off sick from school - happened to my dd awhile ago. If I'd been working out of the home then I don't know what I could have done.

It's one of the reasons I had to pack in work maisy; dd has an average of 80% attendance. I have a more flexible job now. Thank goodness. You are entitled to take time off unpaid for younger children but for single parents especially not being paid is going to be a problem isn't it?

saggar what is the extended school thing?

Extended schools

Basically wraparound care based on school premises.

Mixed mesages? Rather ironic to have this thread and this one in active convos at the same time.

It will take them forever to sort out extended care here! and for dd's school (special) it will never happen i would have thought.

Would be fab though

dd's school had an afterschool club/care once a fortnight and the council said it was 'too expensive' to run. Bearing in mind the majority of the children at dds school cannot even access out of school clubs, let alone childminding services

It won't get done here Fio - they couldn't even get the Smoking Ban in place lol.

oh the smoking ban people are complaining here about the amount of people (men...drunk mainly) standing outside pubs....and tbh I would rather they bugger off back inside the pub to do it

So would I lol . My neighbour has put up his gazebo in the back garden and invited all his smoking mates round. So the local pissheads are just over my back fence. Grrr.

you know I actually think the smoking ban is a good idea in 'most' places, but in some places it just isnt practical. I mean a gazebo housing lots of drunk men next to your garden is awful! We have 3-4 pubs in our street alone......and I am sure all this standing around outside is going to encouraging fighting amongst the smaller brained ones

Hey when do the 'kids' leave home - I've got four generations in my home!

Brummie - do you really think work should be the default option for all - even parets of pre-school age children? Because if so i think that attitude is what has got our society in the mess we are in - work is seen as much more important than bringing up children, when IMO, both roles provide valuable benefits to society. Bringing up children is work, and very hard work at that, and yes I do think that everyone should have a right to have one parent at home when children are there.

I do agree that when children are in school, parents should be expected to work, not just sit around watching Trisha and get paid for it. but for that to be a realistic proposition we do need to make far more progress in providing flexible, stimulating work

Not read all of this, but FWIW, I don't have huge amounts of sympathy with any hard line argument that its impossible to work full time with a NT 12 year old. I don't know if anyone here has taken this IMO pretty extreme view btw and I am hold my own views purely based on my own experience.

My 13 year old son, from the age of 11 along with many of his friends, spends an hour or two at home after school alone. Mainly he sleeps or watches TV after a busy day at school and early morning start. No problems at all so far.

Most of my son's friends go home from school by themselves, no parent pick ups. Depending on length of bus/train journey this can take some time as the average journey to and from a secondary school is longer than the average journey to primary school as there are far fewer secondary schools. So for instance, my son does not even arrive home till about 4.15pm on average - and often later.

Also, children at my son's school (and this is common I believe) can always stay on after school ends and go to homework club, the library, extracurricular clubs - this is all free of charge and it means again, they are being 'looked after' at school.

So IME the problem of after school childcare is not so hard to overcome.

As for holiday childcare, yes, this will cost money and IME older children and teenagers do not want to be left with childminders.

But where I live the local council and all sorts of private organisations run a huge range of full time daily holiday courses - sports, drama, or just general leisure and fun courses. These normally last between 9 - 4 ish. I don't know if I am lucky to have this choice or not, but I have never had a holiday course crisis. If one course is full, there is always another.

Again, it may be very possible for your child to get to and from the course venue under their own steam. If not, and you need to take them, this is not so good if you have a long working day, so yes, you'd need an understanding employer and some flexibility in hours.

But also I am ok about leaving my son, now 13 at home for a short day alone - not for a week but if for any reason the course was closed for a day, I am confident ds1 could safely fend for himself.

IME it is the holiday playclub arrangements that are the worst to overcome regarding full time work, but at least they are not a constant problem.

I totally agree that is is nice to 'be there' for your 12 year old every day after school and all through the holidays, and if your family set up allows you to be on hand, you are lucky.

But IMO and IME the argument that parental presence is totally necessary gets weaker and weaker as your child moves through secondary school.For some individual children having a parent at home is a really good idea but IMO not as a general rule.

Prufrock, it's a very good question about pre-school children.

I certainly don't agree with the current system where MOST working parents are limited to 6 weeks leave at anything approaching reasonable pay (unless you work for a very nice, large company or in the public sector where they volunteer to pay you more). And as for taxing SMP....don't get me started.

Personally, if I was balancing the books, (here's me with my little statesman hat on) I'd be trying to offer ALL primary carers 12 months leave on as NEAR to their normal salary as possible, then be expecting them to return to work.

In return, I'd be using the benefit savings to provide proper and affordable wraparound childcare while exerting influence on companies to offer all jobs on a flexible basis.

I would add that benefits should be there as a safety net when the shit hits the fan. (God, some of the stories on this site... there but for the grace of god and all that....)

In an ideal world, those 'safety net' benefits would be at a more meaningful level, but limited to a clear timescale and tied to support in getting people back on their feet.

How would we go about providing 'stimulating' work?

And I assume the idea that parents will return to work is aimed at those who would claim benefits if they didn't? Or is it all parents?

LOL!

Why does it also have to be 'stimulating'?

I mean, too f*&king bad!

Most jobs are shit-boring.