Report on increasing gap between rich & poor. What's a London without 'average' families like?

[BrummieOnTheRun]

The Rowntree report published today describes the increasing gap between the richest and poorest in society, with increasing segregation between their lives.

One observation in the report is that 'average' families had virtually disappeared in some areas.

As one family amongst what seems like a mass exodus of families from London in the last year, I was interested to read that.

Does it matter if the only families left in large cities like london are the really rich and those reliant on state benefits?

Should cities try to retain 'average' working families, or just let this trend take its course?

custy you last sentence doesn't make sense. Surely then there is no point to the surestart grant?
Doesn't follow re property.

or even your!

immigration seperate issue - hence seperate paragraph.

think i know what you mean - the grant has nothing to do with it.

but i mean in some industries immigration means a transient work force - often leaving those ont he recieving end of the service ( of aforementioned workforce) up shit street

umm think I get you now. Was it lower down or another thread ?I get put off schools with Oz teachers in somehow feel they will be less 'committed'
Need to add not put off Aussies

custy I was joking about middle class families raising standards on council estates! It was a poor allusion to the schools debate.

(I can't agree with you on it being a good thing to hand a cheque for £500 to a teenage girl to do with as they will, though. It's a lot of money for kids from any background and teenagers are generally little idiots.)

Apparently Ken had pledged in 2005 to make London more family-friendly (roughly translated as more buses) with subsidised childcare places for 10,000 disadvantaged kids???

whether its a wise thing to give out £500 cash rather than somethig else isn't what iwas saying, rather that it seems a little wrong to begrudge them on that just becuase its a luxury you could never afford becuase your paying a maortgage ona quarter of a million pound property ( or more)

I don't think I begrudged them having the money at all. But I did think it was a ridiculous way to provide support to teenage parents.

It wasn't helping the children to have top of the range accessories. Those girls, quite frankly, should have been in school or at college. That's the only way to get them out of poverty. That £500 could have bought them about 80 hours of childcare, couldn't it? That's enough for a short course. Not only that, the ENVY in the eyes of the other girls who were still at school... It's not the right message to be sending, however well intended.

The reason people get pissed off with money being handed out like that is because it isn't the really well off who are being squeezed in this country, it's pretty average families. Our income tax bills are a massive outgoing. To see it mis-spent is galling, particularly if you're struggling financially. I don't think that's unreasonable?

One has to ask the question why young girls are taking the life choice of having kids so young. I am constantly surprised at the number of 16, 17 and 18 year old girls with one or 2 kids. I work in a job where I have a lot of contact with 18+ people and over the last 19 years (the length of time I have worked there), the number of young girls with babies has truly rocketed.

I know this is purely anecdotal, and it may be the area I work in, but I see it as quite significant. I know one young woman who has a 4 year old child and is only 18. These girls don't have partners either. I do wonder how the children of these children will turn out in years to come. May be as a society we have made it too socially acceptable to be a one parent mother? I don't know.

Sorry - what the hell is a one parent mother? But I am sure you know what I mean!

people have always had children young though. Its not a new thing

My gran had her first baby at 18 and had to marry its dad. i think thats the only difference

brummie
11.49
"Ormiran, I think a lot of people are racking up debt trying to maintain a 'normal' standard of life, not accepting the realities of their financial situation.

I know we did briefly. If you've been to university and worked hard for 10 years it can be hard to accept you have to live extremely frugally all of a sudden. It wasn't part of the deal, ha, ha!

I'm afraid I did get pissed off when I then saw teenage girls in Kentish Town togged up to the nines, pushing top of the range buggies they'd bought with their £500 surestart grant."

used the whole post to put it into context. - i think just using the last paragraph would have been unfair. i think you can see from that it looks like you are somewhat begrudging - rather than wnating the govt to spend your tax more wisely.

i actually agree with your last assertion. Education is the key. that £500 could have been better spent.

I think you showed the difference by saying that your grandad had to marry your gran. So there was a father figure involved. My gran also had to marry my grandad at 19 - I am sure this was not uncommon.

However, the children I am talking about are bringing up their children on their own. I have seen one of them sitting with her two year old outside my place of work, snogging with 2 boys (alternately!) whilst her baby tried to attract her attention. Now you can't tell me that this sort of behaviour is a good role model for young babies. I am sure your gran didn't indulge in this type of behaviour (or at least I hope she didn't!).

Some of these girls have children by different boys. I know of one girl who has 3 children = the first white, the second black and the third white again and she is 21.

Sorry, this has nothing to do with the title of the thread!

I just feel that some girls put themselves into poverty by having children far too young and putting themselves on the breadline before they have even started out into life.

i think the question to ask figroll is why they do this?

why isn't educations eem as important - why is THAT life good enough for them

why have they no hopes, dreams and aspirations.

why is it good enough? and what does society have to to to change that?

I knew this thread was going to go all Daily Mail reactionist at one point . . .

expat

then again who are we to dictate how others choose to live their lives? the young girls arent hurting anyone by having babies young, or with different men of differnt colours. As long as they look after their children well, it really doesnt matter does it?

I dont know what my gran got up to, I have never asked her. She didnt have an extremely happy life with my grandad though. They loved each other but she never had the freedom that women today have.

It's a typically Daily Mail slant, though, Fio. Have kids young and you're a lazy scrounger. Wait to have them till you are older and you get blame for that, too.

fio you are right ofcourse w should dictate how anyone should live their lives, from my experience ( both work & Personal) My questions stem from my assertion that it seems ( most of the time) like its the main life option to have a baby. I dont think that poorer girls have the same equality of opportunity. Maybe if we could break this cycle, afford greater adult education for poorer families with childcare included we could break the cycle of poverty. or at least provide a real choice

I had my children young (not a teenager but I have a young face) and LOTS of people judge you for it. As far as I am concerned I looked after my babies as well as the next person, whatever their age

custardo, I do know what you mean. I am sometimes guilty of seeing a young girl having a baby and thinking it is a shame she didnt asipre to more because she has a brain and could do what she wanted. BUT at the end of the day having a child is often a major thing in a womans life. I really could not wait to have children. In hindsight I should have waited, but to me at the time having a baby was the most important thing in the world

it too had my children young - i was pregnant at 16. i too looked after them well - not saying that when you are poor you are a worse or less er or incapable mother. but i certain; wouldnt like to think that at 16 my child chose this as a lifestyle

No I know what you mean

custardo - "my personal aquaintance with immigration. everyone in london is australian - well not everyone - some are from new zealand. fecking work visa them piss off back ..."

If I understood this correctly, you don't like Australian immigrants. My Australian DH has been here since 1980, works very hard and pays his taxes just like you do. Please don't over-generalise. It's offensive.

i am sorry you took it in that context

i think you will find i was refering to people with visas who work here for a short time then return to their country of origin

it was certainly not the racist remark you infer.

"my personal aquaintance with immigration. everyone in london is australian - well not everyone - some are from new zealand. fecking work visa them piss off back leaving people on the recieving end of front line delivered services - such as housing for instance."

them = then*