Report on increasing gap between rich & poor. What's a London without 'average' families like?

[BrummieOnTheRun]

The Rowntree report published today describes the increasing gap between the richest and poorest in society, with increasing segregation between their lives.

One observation in the report is that 'average' families had virtually disappeared in some areas.

As one family amongst what seems like a mass exodus of families from London in the last year, I was interested to read that.

Does it matter if the only families left in large cities like london are the really rich and those reliant on state benefits?

Should cities try to retain 'average' working families, or just let this trend take its course?

Dh and I moved out of London because although we were relatively well-off compared to average UK income, we couldn't afford a decent house in an OK area for ds. And the nice ex-council house we had (we didn't take it out of council housing stock, previous owner did that), where our immediate neighbours were lovely, was right next to an estate with several crack dens. Final straw was a shooting in the house opposite - OK, drug-related, definitely targetted at one occupant, but still, shooter could have got the wrong address.

Even here, it's still expensive to live, esp. the cost of dh's commute. Apparently one of the least affordable areas in the UK for keyworkers (good schools and good commute to London). Our income has gone down drastically since I went freelance and part-time - a choice I made but we now feel poor in comparison to the local population. Between us we earn probably £48k (I'm self employed so my earnings vary) - bizarre that that makes us feel poor, especially as we 'only' have a £107k mortgage, which is very small for the South East. Hate to think what life is like for people who really are poor. Ds's former nanny is a local girl who lives in a council bedsit with her boyfriend, despite both of them working full-time.

All of these stories of regular people working hard and earning reasonable salaries but unable to meet basic needs re living and homes?!?!?!?!?I am appalled at this I think the govt have messed up big time with teh economy Something does need to be done.

It would seem that 'average' families everywhere are struggling, and it is bizarre to think that you can bring home over £500 a week and have a hard job making it last. I once sat down and totted up my outgoings and was shocked to see them add up to £2400 per month. That didn't take into account any money for fun stuff - holidays, eating out, buying birthday presents etc. It didn't even take clothing into account (with 2 growing DCs that can be pretty steep). OK, we did also have a mortgage at that point ( a brief foray into the world of home ownership we quickly realised we couldn't afford!) but it made shocking reading just to see where our money was going. It was all a bit depressing, actually.

DH and I have 52 K salary combines together..and we never consisider ourselves poor neither rich but ok ! We are renting in London in wimbledon, it's really expensive there..600k houses...but I'm chocked to see that 68 K is the minimum to have in order to get a mortgage on a 200 k house...that means we'll never be able to buy a house..we rent our house for 1100 pounds, we give 1000 pounds on childcare...we have 250 pounds left at the end of the month for leisure

I used to live in wimbledon and we had to leave as we couldn't afford to buy there on very average salaries.

bonne baguette -
your rent is almost the same as my mortgage, which is a fair bit less than 200k .

I think anyone on an average salary would find it hard to buy a house anywhere nowadays.

noddyholder - the only reason we are still here is that because my dd is in the best school in wandsworth council and it's only pre school, if she's not accepted at this school again in reception, we'll move..but it's such a nice aera here that it really breaks my heart the tought of moving out of here...and to end up where ?

We have an appointment with Foxton next week...I'm not really hopeful, DH think we can afford something here even little...I think he doesnt realise..

Too right horsewoman! We live in a 'cheap' part of the south-west where the lowest property is about £100k )for a small studio type flat. But how many first time buyers will be earning enough to buy even that let alone a home big enough to accomodate a family. And go out of the town centre a mile and the cheapest property goes up by about £50k....and the pretty villages (even the not so pretty villages) can add another £50k to that again. Renting is easily as expensive as buying as far as I can see.

Normal jobs all filled by immigrants living in shared housing

Were it not for this nobody would be staffing London at all

It might seem like the super-rich / non-dom issue is marginal, but in london it's one of the key reasons why the housing market has gone out of control.

They have huge amounts of money, are paying cash (so interest rates don't touch them) and can avoid stamp duty on some (all?) of the purchase cost. That pushes prices up in prime areas, then less-prime areas and then from the southern regions outward and upward.

I agree with hatwoman.
It IS depressing.

So if you are not rich, you cant afford a house in a nice aera in which you feel safe and secure..if you want to move out London and still you are not rich, you cant afford a house in a nice village / nice part of England...the reality is really harsh, difficult to digest.

Although house prices are a big issue, at least it's COMPLICATED. There is no excuse for the lack of support with childcare costs.

The average nursery place in 2006 was £152/week apparently. So if you have 2 children, that's £1200/month. In London it would be £1600/month on average. Yes, there's support, but again only if you are on a low wage against NATIONAL standards. (apologies for all the caps...I'm a little annoyed )

But surely it has always been the way

Wealthy people can afford big houses in poncy
areas

Averagely remunerated people can afford average houses in average areas

People who earn well below the average either have to rent a council house or small private place or live in a very below average area

Plus ca change..

but maybe that area was previously average
now it is poncy

Areas do change!

Dh always quotes at me the family friends of theirs in the early 70s. He was a secondary school teacher, she was a SAHM, they had 4 kids and lived in a big victorian house in West Putney which would cost upwards of £2million today

However West Putney was not terribly desirable in the early 70s

oh and they did it all on his salary

had not intherited

My PILs were the same
FIL was FD of a city bank (not a banker!) and they had a house in Richmond that would be £5 million + today

snot fare

no things have changed. My highly educated uncle (who is a director of a huge building firm) used to live opposite a manager of woolworths. That would never happen now

salaries have not kept up with house price increase simple as that.

But there aren't previously poncy areas now becoming affordable, are there? At least not in the south. We are getting whole swathes of England like that now.

No there aren't
I am just trying to show that it has happened for years and years
not just recently