Boy 10 mauled to death at holiday park

[Witchofzog]

I can't link on this phone but it is on most news sites. The owner was found off site after a police hunt so possibly fled when she knew her dog had killed a child. It's just awful - a young boy probably just going to the loo in the middle of the night on a campsite having his life ended because of a dangerous dog and an owner who can't control and/ or keep it securely away

Yep. There are somewhere just under two million licensed weapons in the UK.

You and I both know that the great majority of these are shotguns owned by farmers, land managers, pest controllers and others with a professional reason.

Nearly all other guns owned for sport are owned rurally.

The number of guns legally owned is much greater than the number of licences. The number of owners is far smaller than the number of guns.

It’s just untrue that gun ownership is widespread. This is such a ludicrous argument.

who needs a large dog? I cannot think of a single reason for Joe and Jo Public to keep a dog capable of killing an adult
If docile large dogs get excluded because of this, so what? I would not want proper measures undermined by well-funded dog lover interests litigating the definitions of breeds

I agree, no one needs to have a large predatory carnivore capable of killing humans as a pet, that's why we don't allow hyena's and jaguars to be kept as pets

There are approximately 30 deaths per year in the uk from horses. Compared to 1 death caused last year by a dog.

Are we banning them now? They are absolutely massive, compared to the largest dog breed in the world.

So according to your preposterous proposal, they should be banned as well? Yes?

Of the top of my head, kissing, I can think of half a dozen people I know who are not farmers, land managers or gamekeepers who own guns. They might do a bit of pest control on the side, when asked, but they mostly shoot clays and targets, or go wildfowling. Over 700,000 people hold firearm or shotgun certificates. That's quite a lot of people. And the key point is, you don't have to prove that you need a firearm. You only have to prove that you are capable of using and handling it responsibly, know what you are likely to do with it ('I'm a member of a gun club' is an acceptable answer) and will store it securely.

And anybody who thinks that dogs are in the same league as jaguars and hyenas isn't even trying to be rational. Unless, of course, that's another thought experiment.

I'm still waiting for the evidence about dogs being born insane and how domesticated animals are 'unnatural' and therefore more dangerous than wild ones.

How many of those 30 deaths were of people unconnected to the rider, who will have taken on the risk to themselves by being the rider?

How many of the deaths were because the horse attacked the victim?

Well the DDA has not worked but I can't be bothered to argue about it.

So, for arguments sake, the law is brought in where dogs over a certain height, weight etc are banned. I have 2 dogs, both the same breed, both male. One is a good couple of inches taller than the other. So if one falls above the height restriction he gets pts but the other doesn't? Is that right? That's not stupid at all is it?

Also, as I have now said twice, my dogs although quite large have very slim necks so what happens on that score?

People walking past a horse, can get seriously hurt! If that horse wants to go crazy and is freaked by a person or vehicle, that rider has absolutely no control of that horse!! There is absolutely nothing you can do at all to control it, or stop it! Where we live there are far more horses than dogs, and walking past a horse is far more scary than walking past a dog on a lead.

Cows is another example, cows being in fields with public footpaths..should all cows be banned?! That is a major issue where we live! Cows are extremely dangerous to humans, yet are allowed to roam freely with public footpaths, running straight through the farmers fields.

And the death of people by dogs in the uk, normally happens in the home. The owners dog in the owners house!! Can you see where the responsibility lies with the owner?!

From the statistics to do still honestly believe we should ban dogs on height/ weight/ neck size because there was one death last year. I will say it again 0.00004% of a chance you will be killed by a dog!!
And you would happily make hundreds of dog breeds extinct, because of this?!

No breed would become extinct. That is just nonsense.

The lengths to which dog lovers are now going with their silly comparisons and desperate whataboutery says it all really.

The vast majority of people who are hurt by a dog are known to that dog - invariably living in the same household. I'm struggling to think of a case of a child in the UK being killed by a dog that didn't belong to friends or family.

Likewise horses tend to kill people known to them - invariably the rider, though they're entirely capable of killing a bystander. They don't attack in the same way as dogs, but bucking, rearing, kicking and trampling can all have the same ultimate effect.

If I was going to tangle with a dog or a horse, I'd pick the dog - any injuries are less likely to kill you and you get far more warning signs with a dog.

Hold on. Now I'm confused? How would the breeds on your banned list not become extinct? Please answer how if you are banning say for example Golden Retrievers, they are on the list of being too tall..they stop being bred, then they will become extinct won't they? Or if not, how won't they?!

@KissingInTheRain why are they silly comparisons?? Please elaborate..

TBH I stopped trying when we had dogs compared to jaguars and hyenas. I already had my head in my hands from the nonsense about 'dogs insane from birth' and 'domestic animals are unnatural and therefore dangerous'.

I think they have decided the debate has been lost..or they are furiously googling 'reasons why dogs are born insane?' Desperately searching for any scrap of farcical literature, that can help back that statement up 🤦‍♀️ we might not have a response for a long long time..

Utter madness!!

I think some of the posters on this thread are being naive, or assuming everyone is as sensible and law abiding as themselves.

There is a great deal of money to be made in illegal activities involving dogs, and criminal interests have no intention of following whatever regulations you introduce. Dog fighting, breeding, hare coursing and drug trafficking are all part of a thriving black market economy.

If owners are required to undergo training before owning a dog, criminals are more than happy to break in and nick dogs. It's already disturbingly common in rural areas.

If you ban certain breeds, how hard do you think it is to smuggle them in? Or to move on to a non-banned breed and turn them vicious?

However much you want to rid the country of vicious dogs, there are people with a vested interest in keeping them around, and they aren't going to stop because you tell them.

Kissingintherain, I would have said the lengths the dog haters are going to with their silly ideas and desperation says it all really.

I asked a valid question about my dogs in particular. The same breed but different heights, largish dogs but very slim necks. No one can answer that because there is no answer to such a ridiculous idea as banning dogs purely on weight, height etc.

A height and/or weight restriction could never work because not all dogs of the same breed are the same height or weight. It can vary quite a lot. So German Shepherds could be banned because of their height but then there is one or more than are well below that height so they don't get banned, See how stupid it would be?

Hi again. Hope you are all having a pleasant easter break.

Maybe we could have a recap from everyone on what they would do to prevent further dog attacks. What kind of laws should be brought in

Here is my recap

The problem with banning breeds is that dogs are often cross bred. Sometimes a dog owner does not know what breed the dog is, even the experts do not always know for certain

Measurement of dog by weight, height, neck and jaw is much simpler. We all know how to use weighing scales or a tape measure. The details re measurements would worked out by a govenment commission.

Any dog outside any of the measurements would be neutered

We could have diagrams on how to measure dogs, these would be delivered to every household in a leaflet at a small cost and also made available online. If a dog owner was unsure about the procedure. The dog could be taken to a warden or vet to be measured

My proposal would mean the phasing out of large dogs or dogs with powerful jaws/necks

I support your proposal @Flax
I am pro increased dog control
I don't hate dogs anymore then I hate foxes pigeons etc, there are several ways in which dogs are problematic and I would like to see these things addressed

I think perhaps people don't really understand what is meant by the proposal to classify dogs according to the metrics that you suggest @Flax

@Flaxmeadow

Please please please just answer this one question!!

Saint Bernards (one of the largest dog breeds in the world) have never caused a death to a human in the UK are going to be banned..yes?

Jack Russell's, one of which killed an 8 day old baby..wont be banned..because they are not tall, don't weigh a lot, and don't have big necks?

@LittleMissHappy19

A Saint Bernard killed a child in 1974. The owner shot the dog with with a 12 bore shotgun in an attempt to save the 6 year old boy, but the attack continued and the child died

So ok that ONE in the USA your talking about, 45 years ago..no deaths since..Fine your getting of Saint Bernards.

What about Jack Russells?

Oh and like I asked previously are you from the UK?

I'm from the UK but I don't understand what difference it makes.

The USA is very similar with regards dog ownership to the UK. The problem with the UK is that statistics are not as readily available

There have been other dog attacks involving SB's resulting in fatalities.

I explained upthread about smaller dogs, with small necks, and the ability to be able to grip a dogs neck with both hands during an attack

What would be your proposals on the law?

I'm thinking some sort of algorithm which takes into account the physical dimensions of the dog coupled with the propensity of the breed to attack, so it's combination of propensity to attack and ability to do damage

we need much better statistics and data collecting around dogs, if all animals were chipped then there could be some kind of database and if your dog is involved in an incident that could be recorded
dogs could all be required to have scannable chips so that members of the public who are concerned about dogs could have a phone app that tells you if the dogs around you have been involved in incidents
the possibilities are limitless when you consider the capabilities of modern technology

But the dog still killed a baby!!!! It was too late!

It's completely irrelevant if the irresponsible owner could get the dog off or not!

I have stated more than once,what changes I think should be made. You must not of read all the thread. So I then find it very difficult to take any opinion from you seriously. I am reading every single post, before commenting. Maybe you should do the same?