Should we get the Germans to run our NHS...?

[Arnoldthecat]

I only ask as they are world renowned for being sticklers for rules and for being very efficient and correct at all they do (apart from immigration/migration).

Now in the media today we have HM Conservative Government making an empty promise that we will have a "world class" NHS in the next ten years !

So is this an admission that we do not have this now? If not why not as we are a very wealthy country apparently and in the top five largest economies by GDP in the world though for the vast majority of us,you wouldnt know it.

So just how close to being "world class" is our NHS? Indeed what is world class? This is how vague this BS is that they feed the prols.

There is presumably no index as to what is world class in terms of health care?

The fact is that the NHS is fat,bloated and inefficient. Like the legions of corpulent Brits that the NHS advises to loose weight,exercise and eat healthier,the NHS is in need of bariatric surgery itself !

A Labour minister this very morning on the BBC stated that the NHS was short of 100,000 staff or some similar figure. My answer is,,it cant be because its still operating !

This then led on to talk of migration . I say again just what exactly are our own youngsters doing ? Are they all studying travel and tourism? Is it only Africans and Asians who want to work in the NHS? Is it now that crap that the British will not soil their hands with it?

I shall give you an example of NHS inefficiency...

A few months ago i visited my very nice GP about an issue.

He decided he needed to refer me for some tests.

About a week later i got a letter and on it were some login details for me to go to an NHS website and select not only which hospital but also what day and time i wished to attend.

On that list were maybe 6 true NHS facilities. They all had really lengthy wait times for appointments usually starting at one month and progressing upward to one which could accept any more appointments as they were overflowing. There were two "private" facilities and they both offered appts within a couple of weeks and with a wide choice of days and times.

Whats not to like ? i clicked the nice private Spire healthcare link and got an appointment two weeks later at my convenience. Went along, had coffee and a nice chat/appointment in a stress free atmosphere.

So yes, essentially,,the NHS isnt working,lets let the Germans and private enterprise manage it because quite simply, they do it better as do the French and the Spanish to my knowledge.

What a load of rubbish, op. What has any of what you are writing got to do with ‘the’ Germans?

I'm just suggesting that the NHS has been a political football in this country for decades and has been looked on as some kind of cinderella service which is not free,,we all pay for it. Meanwhile other EU countries such as Germany, France and Spain have better healthcare. We should let the Germans manage our NHS,,simples..

The NHS is still operating because people are working 60+ hours for no extra pay doing the job meant for 3 people so yes it is still functioning but only bearly.

Why would you work for no pay unless it was contractual? Im surprised their union sanctions it..

www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

UK - 18th; Germany - 25th; USA - 37th

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40608253
UK number 1 in this survey by a US think tank; Germany 8th, USA 11th

I have so much personal experience of time and money wasted in the the NHS and yes op is right Germany is supposed to have shit hot health care!

Nothing wrong with looking at other systems and seeing how we can improve.

The German health care system is very good but also costs taxpayers and employers a lot more than your UK NI contributions. So the first question is, do you think everyone will be prepared to pay more to fund a German style system?
My guess is no.
For the record I live and work in Germany, in 2019 I will pay 16.4% of my gross salary for my state health insurance alone (unemployment & care insurance and pension contributions are not included in that). My employer will also pay the same amount.
If I earned enough to have private health insurance I would pay quite a bit less.
In rural areas the health system is in crisis as young doctors move away and there is no one left to take over GP surgeries when doctors retire. In large cities it is difficult to get appointments and many GPs and paediatricians do not take on any new patients. Referrals seem to work much quicker than in the uk however and my experience of hospital care in four different hospitals has been excellent.
I am sure that millions has been wasted through inefficient practices within the NHS but you won’t get anywhere with a new system now unfortunately without everyone being prepared to pay for it.

My nephew's wife had a baby in Germany recently and my sister said on her visit there that she was surprised to see beds in the corridor there - people looking half dead while others are walking past.

If we pull out of the EU then we can't become world class because all of our universities and science research will suffer massively.

The EU is a tiny part of our history.

My local University hospital has more cross overs with a hospital in Mumbai than all of the EU put together.

The NHS was formed largely as a result of the Second World War so I suppose we do owe the Germans that Judging by this thread people who say the Germans won the peace are really not wrong.

Nothing wrong with looking at other systems and seeing how we can improve.

Wash your mouth out with soap and water. How dare you suggest our beloved NHS can't be improved? It's become a national religion now and only pumping tens of billions more yearly will save it! Of course it's not inefficient - it's all the patients' fault that things aren't always 100% prefect.

What Welshcake77 said.

If you want better healthcare, infrastructure, schools etc then prepare to pay for it.

Public transportation being a notable exception, given the amount of time I’ve wasted over the years standing at railway platforms in my native land...

I do find it pretty amusing that the Brits have the idea that Germany is a idyllic paragon of efficiency where everything runs exactly as it should.

Google BER airport for a shining example of German efficiency. 😂

Maybe if some people who work in the NHS would stop robbing it, it would be better funded..

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6644587/A-staggering-1-25bn-year-stolen-NHS-new-reveals.html

Health care is better in Germany but as the previous poster says that’s because people pay more for it. But I think it’s worth that money.

A friend had sudden knee pain that painkillers weren’t touching. She got an apt with a community orthopaedic doctor (of her choice) on Monday, he referred her to a surgeon who she saw yesterday. Cortisone injection, follow up next week and if not any better an operation this month. No need for a trip to her GP or A&E.

Healthcare is also seen as something that people take responsibility for. I decide which doctor I’m going to, it’s up to me to make the appt, I will probably get the results and keep them in a file at home.

But there are also problems with a privatized health service - doctors sometimes do unnecessary tests since they can claim them back from the health insurance. Patients are sometimes discharged too soon since there’s a cut off of how many days a condition can be treated as an inpatient.

But overall it’s a much better system and something I’d miss if I moved back to the UK

Too much spent on new initiatives and not enough to properly fund existing delivery when referrals increase.

I live in Germany and the healthcare locally is really good. I’m in a rural area not far from major cities, and I find that the doctors are good, they make time for you and treat you as an individual. Germany has a higher GDP per capita though and invests a higher % of GDP in healthcare. Basically, the UK can’t/ won’t pay for the healthcare that Germany has.

Culturally, health is a big deal in Germany and German parents will compare notes on their kids’ doctors in the same way as British parents do with schools. In much the same way as the best school is always in the neighbouring borough, the best children’s doctor is in the next town. I have to say though, ours is excellent

Yes because that would really go down well with the British Public... can't see any flawed logic here or what could possibly go wrong

The problem with British people is that they don't value what they have. The grass is always greener on the other side. Then you reach the other side and it's not that green actually.

For the record I live and work in Germany, in 2019 I will pay 16.4% of my gross salary for my state health insurance alone (unemployment & care insurance and pension contributions are not included in that). My employer will also pay the same amount.

Health insurance costs in Germany are indeed higher than in England, but I believe not as high as quoted.

The public health insurance contribution rates for employees in 2019 have been set at between 7.6 and 9.1% of gross income (depending on your health insurance provider) and the 16.4% figure quoted will therefore be the combined employee/employer rate.

And any amount earned over the current salary threshold of EUR 4.537,50 gross per month is not subject to any health insurance contributions at all.

As a forgeinger I find the nhs like something out of a developing country. Quality is poor both in terms facilities and staff. Access is patchy to say the least.

The problem is that it is a free for all. Making it free at the point of access for everyone means that it costs too much to make it workable (baring in mind that taxes on Britain are already about as high as they can get without loosing high earners and there isn’t enough money anyway). The government can either cut other services to find the money or means test access so people who can afford to pay for treatment do reducing demand as some people go private and increasing availabile funds.

It’s teally appalling and something needs to be done about it but it will require compromises that I doubt the British public will be willing to accept until its far too late. Too entitled.