Here we go again - Pakistan condemns Salman Rushdie's knighthood

[edam]

Just feel exasperated. A. none of their damn business who we give knighthoods to (not that I'm in favour of knighthoods or indeed Salman bloody Rushdie) and B. why can't these extremists understand that free speech is as important to western liberal democracies as respect for the Prophet is to them?

Oh, and C. why did the presenter on Radio Four not ask the Pakistani big wig they were interviewing whether he had ever read the damn book? Also failed to ask the British muslim peer who was attacking the knighthood the same question.

[grumpy emoticon]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6763119.stm

Kathy, the Muslim peer denouncing it was Lord Ahmed.

Most of the people condemning Salman Rushdie have not even read Satanic Verses. Also, the man has written many books, not just this one. Last year, Bengali Muslims in London held protest about the film being made of Monica Ali's book "Brick Lane". When asked if they had read it, they had to admit that they had not.

We should stand firm against these bullies who quite frankly need to grow up. Brave women like Hirsi Ali have to live in hiding because she had the courage as well as temerity to draw attention to the hidden violence against Muslim women. TThe Dutch film maker, Theo van Gogh, made a film written by her and for that, he was murdered by a Muslim fanatic.

I personally think we should all buy Satanic Verses and get it to number 1 in the book charts.

(OrmIrian - I loved Midnights Children too)

It may be everything to them, but that doesn't mean we should for one second tolerate cries for murder in the name of their religion.

People can slag off motherhood all they like - and they do! - nobody here seriously calls for their murder. And remember, these weren't idle threats, people all around the world were murdered for translating or editing the book. It's no joke. This kind of terrorism is a real threat to civilised values and we MUST stand firm.

You could argue that it's of equal interest as our interests in iraq and the middle east.

did I say we shouldn't? But we also need to understand that what seems relatively inconsequential and distant to us is a direct attack on their entire existence to them, and after what seems like a whole history of such attacks. Thats what prompts such severe reactions.

and don't get me started about Hirsi Ali, I think free speech is a wonderful, vital thing but incitement to racial hatred is not. IMO she's as guilty of intolerance and hatred as those she accuses of intolerance and hatred. That film wasn't about revealing hidden truths, it was about provocation.

Indeed,like illegally invading countries killing and maiming hundreds and thousands of them.

And people wonder why I denounce religion.....

Well, I think attacking free speech to the point of not only silencing people who dare to discuss things that are important to you, but murdering them, is a direct attack on our entire belief system (as in Western civilisation certainly since the Enlightenment). You can't have a conversation if someone is pointing a gun at you saying 'you can't talk about this'.

Too sodding right, edam. I'm sorry, but seriously, if you think that threatening violence is a rational response to offense, well, bite me.

And Hirsi Ali might be a provoking madam, but good for her. She's standing up against people who are calling for her to be killed because they disagree with her, or are offended by her words and choices.

none of them have read the book. which is what gets me the most.

makes me feel utterly exasperated and frustrated and angry.

as the very dishy muslim professor on newsnight said last night: we should be discussing foreign policy issues not blimmin knighthoods and books, it puts the cause of those that want to look at the totally f*cked situation in the middle east waaaay back when they start threatening authors of fiction.

Irshad Manji has had death threats issued against her too and for what? Speaking her mind. Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance but unfortunately, quite a few of the more strident and vocal supporters are not.

Rebelmum1, illegally invading countries is wrong and shameful. When Sadam invaded Kuwait and initiated war against Iran, I don't recall hordes of Muslim fanatics condemning him.

Right now in Darfur, black Africans are being exterminated by Muslim fanatics and the situation is now spreading into the neighbouring country of Chad.

When the USA and UK came to the aid of the Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo, again, where the apologists for the extremists?

Most of the people killed in Iraq have been killed by other Muslims and right now Fatah and Hamas are slaughtering each other. Look at how a relatively sane Muslim country like Turkey treats the ethnic Kurd population who are largely Sunni Muslims.

Muslims do not have a monopoly of being wronged in this world and Muslim countries have committed barbaric acts of atrocities against others just like the Europeans.

Speedymama, I too have wondered where the Muslim extremist voices are on Darfur...

Doesn't fit with their world view though, does it. It's not "the West" trying to oppress Islam so it can't be that bad...

Quite. These people really do need to grow up.

Anyone who thinks their religion can't stand up to criticism or comment is a bit of an idiot really. I was pleased he was honoured. Pity the British press were too cowardly to publish the Danish cartoons.

Hirsi Ali is an absolute heroine. A woman of amazing courage. Who is she threatening to kill? Nobody. Yet she is at risk every minute. Meomix, I really think you should be ashamed to defend murderers.

There's a campaign here raising money to help the refugees in Darfur, and Gulf has a history of helping refugees from that area, the Emir is (along with the majority of GCC leaders) talking to the extremists in Sudan to try and resolve the situation, which by the way the UK govt isn't doing; when the Iraqis invaded Kuwait there was outrage across the GCC region and the Iran/Iraq war was vocally opposed by countries nearby. When the Danish cartoons happened people were disgusted at the blasphemy and disrespect and saddened by the reaction of the extremists.

Just because it isn't reported in the West doesn't mean that Muslims (even Wahhabis) aren't actively trying to stop extremism.

But am going to withdraw from discussion of the Islamic world on here because it gets me angry, the reality in the Arab world is not the way the British/American media characterise it.

ER... Aloha where exactly do I DEFEND murderers?

So for the hard of reading here it is again: I deplore extremists and terrorists and yes murderers (esp as have lost family to the Troubles in Ireland).

HOWEVER.. there is more to be gained by understanding WHY Muslims feel such a threat from what seem like small matters to us than by going "Tut those muslims are so over emotional with their threats, they should grow up and be like us."

Understanding leads to dialogue. IF the west is so much more civilised then it should lead rather than condemn.

meowmix, so it isn't possible to understand why they get their panties in a bunch and still think they need to grow up and stop flinging wild threats around?

"IMO she's as guilty of intolerance and hatred as those she accuses of intolerance and hatred. That film wasn't about revealing hidden truths, it was about provocation."

So, she's asking to be murdered? Just like all those girls who are just begging to be raped, eh?
You are free speech as a crime on a par with murder. Sounds like defending murderers to me, I'm afraid.

meowmix, of course right thinking people of any religion condemn Darfur. But we're talking about the rabblerousers - what has this Pakistani minister said about it? Threatened suicide attacks against those responsible? No because that would involve taking a long hard look at the world and realising that West=baddie and Muslim=goodie is not a sensible distinction.

When we heard this on the radio last night, I said those people are medieval, dh disagreed. He thinks they are neanderthal.

Let's all buy the Satanic verses.

Now an effigy of the queen has been burned.

All this fuss about a novel.

Actions speak louder than words Meomix. The Dutch film maker was murdered - so just what am I supppose to understand?

storming post of 12.02 speedymama.

I object to Rushdie's knighthood, but not because of the satanic verses. I object because he is an arrogant pretentious toad who has spent the last few years slagging off the UK and being a tax exile in the US. How he has the temerity to accept a knighthood is beyond me. Why he has been offered one remains one of life's great mysteries IMO.

meowmix - what sort of dialogue do you want ? between whom, exactly?