Am I the only person who doesn't get what's going on in the Gaza strip?

[binkleandflip]

I'm aware it's being going on for years and that it has flared up today, but what is it all about?

Hamas and Fatah (sp?) competing for power. AFAIK. But don't really understand it in any depth. I know the poor bloody Palestinians are some of the most unfortunate people on the planet, though.

But, how did it start? Why does it continue etc. I'm really pretty naive to it but it is dominating the news at the mo so I feel I should be more aware of it

No you're not

It's utterly beyond me

No, as far as I can tell, the two main political parties are fighting and it is all unutterably depressing.

It is like sunni v shia.

Its one of those things I think I am so far behind it ain't worth catching up. I really don't understand it beyond a very broad Israel/Palestine question......

[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip try here] or [[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6669545.stm here]

try here or here

oops must remember to preview

Hamas are a more secular political party I think, the president of palestine, mahmood abbas represents hamas. Fattah is much more islamist and fundamental in their beliefs. I may be wrong, but I think they're backed by syria and Iran. It's a power struggle between the two groups. Horrendous of course for everyone in between.

this is the bbc backgrounder to the two different groups

whooops, reading the bbc info, I got my hamas and fatah mixed up. hamas are the more islamist, anti israel side.

Yep, MrsM, 'tis t'other way around. Fatah were in power when Yasser Arafat was alive, Hamas were elected the most recently, campaigning on a basis of their social assistance to the population. Mahmoud Abbas is associated with Fatah. Hamas appear to have the upper hand as things currently stand, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Big old mess, it is.

I was in Israel last year during the war with lebanon and we did an interview with the former israeli pm, Ehud Barak and he said a very pertinent and interesting thing about the problems in the middle east. He said that the culture there is kill or be killed, if you show a moment's weakness you are gone. He was talking at the time about the war between Israel and Lebanese Hamas, but I think it's quite relevant in most situations in the middle east. it's something we in Europe find very hard to understand. In Europe there would be a diplomatic crisis, perhaps even a cold war, but we wouldn't see running gun battles on our streets, which is why it's so shocking for us. That's not to excuse what's happening there as acceptible at all though. I just found it very interesting.

Yes, a very different culture. I've often wondered if it also because such a large proportion of the population believe so strongly in an afterlife.
Not saying believing that turns you into a homicidal loon, (otherwise I'd have my machete out daily) but if you couple a strong belief in the afterlife with a fairly crappy now-life and the conviction that killing in revenge is noble, then priorities look very different.

i do try to believe in an afterlife - and the hope that all who suffer in this life (eg child victims,those who've been tortured/murdered etc go on to a better world afterwards..)

Unfortunately, the belief in an afterlife is not the problem. The problem (among many others) is the Israeli occupation that has been going on for 40 years and the terrible palestinian leadership who don't seem to be doing anything positive for their people, (and of course shocking leadership of Israel...)
MrsMar, was Barak talking about the Israeli culture or the palestinian? Israelies carry a very larg baggage from the holucaust with the feeling that everybody is still out there to kill them. It's a terrible feeling which is so inherent in the Israeli culture that choosing to fight with the "strong" Israeli army is always the first option (otherwise, "they'll kill us").
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a long and hard one which probably (due to leaderships) will carry on a more years to come.
What's going on in Gaza is shocking and needs international interference NOW!

it is the most horrendous situation and there seems to be little political will to sort something out..

...they wouldnt talk to arafat (fatah) when he was in charge and they dont want to deal with Hamas, the democratically elected parliament of palestine authority...

its truly madness and suffering untold..

MrsM said he was talking about the culture in the middle east, she didn't mention it being an 'Israeli' or a 'Palestinian' viewpoint.

I think there's plenty of will to sort it out, but there isn't a straight-foward solution that seems acceptable to both sides. Everyone wants to be the person that brokers the peace there - I'm just not sure what that peace will involve

there is no will at all. Blair and Bush have done absolutely nothing at all. They refuse to engage with Hamas, despite the fact it is a democratically elected body. They refused to engage with Fatah when Arafat was its leader. What do they actually want?

where is this will you speak of suebaroo? I don't see it anywhere.

The Gaza strip is a repulsively overpopulated piece of land which in theory was handed back to Palestinians last year under Sharon. Actually, Israel still maintains total control of its borders and air space. According to a report I read in the New Statesman a couple of weeks ago, the US government has been making secret payments to Fatah to fight Hamas in order to further destabilise the palestinian territories ( such as they are).Israel continues to build illegal settlements and such, against UN resolutions.Noone has done anything to stop this.

Where is the will?

It is really very simple indeed. There will never be peace until the occupied territories are relinquished. Never. There are plenty of suicide bombers just waiting in line. As we speak, Al Qua'eda is infiltrating the occupied terrotories and promising all sorts to those unfortunate enough to live there. I hope Bush finds this funny, since by propping up Israel and selling them arms he is perpetuating this. It is , in a way, amusing.

donnie i agree no will what so ever..
only attempts to use situation to their advantage to the untold suffering of palestinians

i think they hope people (in west) just have ignorance and / or fatigue over these situations and get back to the sleb spotting or similar..

It's not simple donnie. There's the two-state solution, the one-state solution etc, and a situation where both sides are more than willing to use force if they don't get the settlement they want.

Suppose Israel withdraw from the territories, and a two state solution seems closer, and the people who want a one-state solution aren't at all pleased with that?

There's political will in the sense that everyone wants to be the person to end it all - but unfortunately, there are vested interests on both sides, and no-one has the gumption to ruffle the feathers that need to be ruffled.

I don't think it's amusing in the slightest.

'ruffle feathers'.

try to be precise please. I have already asked where this ' will' you speak of is but you seem reluctant to commit. Who ? which leaders/countries?

and btw I do find it grimly amusing that, in suppressing the Palestinians, Bush is exacerbating his own enemy and swelling the ranks of Al Qa'eda. Not just in the middle east but everywhere. Beeston, even.

donnie, there have been any number of international politicians wanting to have the middle-east conflict solution as a notch on their belt. Blair had a bash for 'legacy' purposes a while ago.

You've just been waxing lyrical about the vested interests on the Israeli side, so I'm confused as to why you need me to repeat what you've already said.

You always seem quite eager to have a heated argument about this, donnie. I really don't understand why. It seems to be that if people don't agree that you have a spot-on solution, you get all aggressively questioning.