Two Dunblanes a day? Did that really need saying?

[Chirpygirl]

I might regret posting this but although I am anti-abortion for myself, I am pro-choice, I think for some women it is something that is needed and the Cardinal's comments have gone way over the top and more people will be devestated by his comments than supportive.
I know Catholics are anti-abortion, who doesn't? But sometimes I think they could be a little more restrained.

Story here

Absolutely edam and the fact is if it was an islamic cleric talking about something regarding their religious beliefs in this way or trying to put pressures on politicians there would be uproar. Fact is the catholic church lives in the dark ages where it feels it wields this power across the world and it just doesn't any longer. I'm not saying that they can't express their beliefs but there are ways and means of doing it and this isn't one of them.

Blimey. I wonder if he thinks I should be excommunicated for teaching sex education...

This is what I mean - because the church don't agree with contraception or sex before marriage (unless you're a priest - sorry I couldn't resist) that means you have generations of people having unprotected sex and then either 'unplanned' pg's so then people who want abortions. Why does the church not accept that the world has changed and not using contraception is actually dangerous to health. Do you know the Pope (the one before) actually turned down requests from global health organisations working in Africa to sanction the use of condoms so they could try and start proper sex education and start trying to prevent the spread of aids etc - and he said no as it was against the catholic religion - wtf is that?????

I'm catholic and i fully support abortion : not because it's a fab thing to have available, but unfortunately there will always be circumstances where it will be neccessary for a woman to have that choice available. But when the Church has idiot representatives like this openong their mouth... it's pretty obvious why the catholic church is going down the pan in britain. I know and agree by that old quote 'I may not agree with what you say but i will defend to death your right to say it' but sometimes when pople, especially so called senior figures in society, open their mouths like this... anyway - who's teaching sex education? I thought babies were brought by a stork....

Sorry small chuckle at the stork!!!!

Freedom of speech carries a certain responsibility, particularly if you know that your comments will cause much media interest.
I consider this type of comment by a person in a position of authority to be an abuse of power.

"You could make the same argument for any speech by a public figure which happened to upset someone".
Absolutely.
I think the decadence has the opposite effect - that people shrug off these comments as just another rant by a religious leader, because what they say doesn't necessarily affect them directly.
Which is no help to those that it does.

I think he used the comparison because he knew how much it would touch people. I think the point he was trying to make was that this was how much abortions touched him.

Smallwhitecat i'm with you on this: yes, freedom of speech does mean that we will always hear probably a hundred inane comments for ten sensible ones in the world, but if a persons comments offends us then we have, as we are doing here now, the fereedom to openly say 'i don't agree, you offended me and this is what i think'. Debate and differing opinions are all healthy, even if the content isn't. We cannot monitor and prohibit views we don't agree with as then we are assumiong that some people are 'above' others in being able to judge if what a person is saying is correct / good or not. Yes, there are people who will come out with (sometimes wilfully) bad and negative things, sometimes just from lack of education or being misinformed: by debate / discussion people can learn, be educated, be corrected, be enlightened. In circumstances such as the opoes comments, feedom of speech may seem like a crap argument, but really, it is one of our privileges in modern society. Sorry for boring waffle.. you may all wake up now!

Sorry, opoes was meant to say popes !!!!!!

Nope smallwhitecat, I'm with you kid, crap typing and all! Hmm, do you think we've bored everyone into submission? They all seem to have gone home!!

Yes, I suspect so! So, to summarise today's lesson (like he-man used to do on the end of each cartoon - has anyone else been watching that kids tv thing on bbc4?), the pope is a bit of a tosser (and yes, i'm catholic and i know he's the v.i.p on earth but still...) and he really, really should know better, but we should be proud that he'e in a siociety where he's been able to make these (dubious ) comments, and even prouder that, as individuals, we have had no fear in standing up to a major figure in the church to say 'I don't agree and I don't think you're right'. Ladies, I'm off for a Marks and spencers all butter chocolate chunk cookie to celebrate, and a cup of tea. Then i might prime the banisters. Smallwhitecat, have a cuppa on me!

Oh, the Cardinal (and the Pope) are of course free to spout whatever rubbish occurs to them, just as I'm free to say that it's rubbish. What they are not free to do is put undue pressure on MSPs who represent the electorate.

I always think it's better to start by preventing the conception rather the abortion. And the only way to do that is to arm our children with knowledge and education.

Oh but the Catholic Church can't do that either because they are anti contraception.

For pity's sake. Not only do they encourage the birth of many many unwanted and therefore vulnerable children but they come out with claptrap comments about Dunblane x 2.

Mind you, I do think abortion limit should be lowered to 12 weeks.. ... .. . . .. . ...

I'm all for free speech, the problem is that the cardinal and Pope aren't reciprocating.

They appear to want the MSP's to stop representing the electorate who voted them in and start representing the catholic voters/catholic church alone. Surely it's tantamount to blackmail to state that the catholic MSP's shouldn't be receiving communion if they are not doing everything in their power to make abortion illegal.

Religion and politics and the law are all emotive subjects and mixing them is dangerous.

Presumably they want the MSP's to search their souls as to the effects of not outlawing abortion, i.e. reflect on the "potential" babies killed by allowing it to continue.

What about a bit of soul searching on the part of the catholic church as to the effect of misleading third world populations as to the effectiveness of condoms and the knock on effect of adults dying of aids and children left orphans (possibly also dying of aids later)

Catholic doctrines keep far too many women and children in grinding poverty living misery filled lives around the world. Funnily enough it's a church run by allegedly celibate men.

The funny thing about the catholic church is that it has got more and more reactionary about this issue as the rest of society has got more enlightened.

In the nineteenth century, the RC church was much more liberal about abortion.

It's almost like they want to marginalise themselves. There is no necessary theological reason why they have to take the mad positions they do, they've chosen to be wackos.

I'm not catholic, but as far as I can see, he's just using emotive language to illustrate the horror of abortion in his understanding. It gets compared to the Holocaust a lot, by lots of different people.

I also have no problem with the head of a particular religious organization requiring that adherents act in accordance with their religion. For crying out loud, the child abuse cover-up problem the RCs have is because they haven't acted in accordance with their faith by protecting little ones and so on.

And I also have no problem with a man having an opinion on abortion.

He can try to influence MSP's if he wishes. Whether they respond is up to them. And if they do respond, the elecorate has the option to vote them in or not.

He cannnot make or force legislation, only have his opinion.

And they wonder why people are leaving the church in droves....?

Utterly despicable to compare abortion with the loss those parents and families suffered.

I try and influence MPs. Doesn't make a fat lot of difference, but I still try. Nothing wrong with that at all as long as I'm not chucking bungs at 'em.