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Original poster

Support staff workers doing midwife tasks and putting mothers at risk

36 replies

GiantSquirrelSpotter · 29/05/2007 09:37

BBC report here

OK there are lots of issues here but among other things, what struck me really forcibly was this:

"New roles included breastfeeding advice and support"

So, do I take it that all these support staff have undertaken a 6 month NCT/ ABM/ Other-respected-expert-in-the-field course in supporting mothers to bf?

Or not?

OP posts:
hippmummy · 29/05/2007 10:18

With the amount of pressure midwives are under it was inevitable that the support staff were going to be roped in to doing more than original job descriptions.

Not sure about the breastfeeding issue. I would imagine they would have to have had some training, but I can't see the NHS spending money on anything like the in-depth knowledge they would need to support mothers to the same level as a midwife.

at the idea that they could be replacing midwives because they are cheaper!

maisym · 29/05/2007 10:20

bf support so important - what trainig & understanding will the support workers have?

Original poster
GiantSquirrelSpotter · 29/05/2007 10:31

Well the thing is, most midwives aren't trained to a level where they are competent and qualified to support a woman to breastfeed, so how can a support worker do so, unless she has had some extra training that a mw doesn't usually get?

OP posts:
BrummieOnTheRun · 29/05/2007 10:48

give it 2 years and homebirths will be outsourced to the Tesco home delivery man

Genidef · 29/05/2007 19:38

I realise the bf issue is important...but I'm actually really more concerned about the examinations, etc other stuff these people may be doing - and things they're missing! If I manage to get preggers again, I'm afraid I'm going to start saving from day 1 for an IM to come in to hospital with me. Won't go it alone!

Twinklemegan · 29/05/2007 19:56

I had breastfeeding help from a support worker, though at the time I thought she was a midwife. It was only when I saw her wheeling the lunch trolley around that I realised. She was really nice but I'm not sure she knew that much in hindsight.

BrummieOnTheRun · 29/05/2007 20:36

well isn't this how they said they'd achieve the 'named midwife' goal. except they aren't going to be midwives, are they?

once again the govt gets the wrong end of the stick.

  • we say we want a safe birth.
  • they say we want choice of type of birth.
  • we say we want a safe birth.
  • they say we want the same midwife throughout pregnancy & birth.

please just get the basics right. we-just-want-a-safe-birth.

staff the labour wards adequately with properly trained midwives, then worry about the niceties.

Original poster
GiantSquirrelSpotter · 29/05/2007 20:38

She probably knew as much as anyone else on the ward twinklemegan...

There aren't usually any properly trained bf counsellors there

OP posts:
TwoIfBySea · 29/05/2007 20:42

What happens if you refused to have a non-qualified person deal with important matters though? Would you then just be completely neglected and left alone?

I thought it was bad when I had dts 5 1/2 years ago, and that was due mostly to timing (it being between Christmas and New Year.) It is shocking that there are probably third world countries where childbirth is safer.

Twinklemegan · 29/05/2007 20:57

GSS - yes she was one of the better ones. They all meant well but it was too many cooks (at different times of course).

katepol · 29/05/2007 21:15

Lol at Brummie!

I agree - most mw don't have much bf training, so maybe support staff might actually be less pressured and be able to help more (and maybe get more access to training)?

I don't know. I had two home births after my stay in hospital with dc1, as the 'care' postnatally was so poor I wasn't prepared to go through that again.

It seems that maternity care is getting less frequent than only a few years ago, and now with less expertise. No wonder mw's are leaving in droves...

hotbot · 29/05/2007 21:18

nhs on the cheap again!! i should know i work in the nhs!!!!!

NuttyMuffins · 29/05/2007 21:33

My mum is a HCA on a maternity ward, and when she first started years ago, her main duties were to help mum get comfortable after the birth, help with washing, make beds, give out meals.

Now they do all of the above plus, help mums get baby on the breast, take blood, take out catheters, take urine samples from catheters and lots more.

My mum didn't particularly want to do any of those things and has said, if she did she would have trained as a nurse or midwife. All of the HCA's on the ward were told that they must do their NVQ2 , my mum is 57 she didn't want to do it, but she did.
So now she has done this course and has all of these extra duties and gets paid no extra at all for having done any of it.

NuttyMuffins · 29/05/2007 21:33

Must add that my mum does her job well, and does not carry out any task that she feels she cannot do properly, but not all HCA's are the same.

Twinklemegan · 29/05/2007 21:40

That is so typical of the public sector in general these days. Get as much out of people as you can for as little as you can get away with.

tiredemma · 29/05/2007 21:44

Its wrong.

So very wrong. Midwives recieve three years specialised training for a reason.

Bloody makes me fume that yet again, money is syphoned off the NHS with drastic measures taken, ones which potentially could be life threatening.

SofiaAmes · 29/05/2007 21:56

Can't believe they have only noticed!!! My ds is 6.5 years old and that was the case when I gave birth to him in London 6.5 years ago.

expatinscotland · 29/05/2007 21:57

They've got to pay for all those expensive new cancer drugs somehow . . .

SmileyMylee · 29/05/2007 22:02

The only person who gave me BF support was the ward cleaner, who showed me how to swaddle the baby and use pillows to help get the baby in the right position to latch on. Not sure if it was orthodox, but she had six kids and was more help than the rest of the ward midwifes put together.

However I am extremely concerned on some of the tasks that they could be given to do - putting monitors on, taking blood etc etc. Over time this will become delivering 'routine' births. When I had my second child I had a trainee midwife, who had never delivered a baby on her own. She kept running out to check what to do. This was despite the fact that I had a high risk pregnancy - older mother with high blood pressure. In my first pregnancy I fitted during labour. If I was entrusted to the care of an inexperienced trainee, how long before financial pressures mean that these support staff are delivering babies.

They may say that it would never happen, but who would think that a high risk delivery would be handled by a trainee just because the unit was busy.

notsofarnow · 29/05/2007 22:03

Our hospital currently has vacancy's for midwife support workers advertised and they must be nvq 3. So yes in our hospital they will have undergone training.

paulaplumpbottom · 29/05/2007 22:04

This sort of thing really ticks me off

francagoestohollywood · 29/05/2007 22:10

It is dreadful.
Expat has a point. The amount of conditions that can now be succesfully treated is increasing so much that the nhs can't possibly sustain it.

wrinklytum · 29/05/2007 22:21

I think it is awful.

However can I just give some praise to the "clinical support worker" role.

I work on an adult ward and we have 3 clinical support workers who are all NVQ 3 trained.They were all very experienced HCAs who undertook further training.

They noW take bloods,do ECGs etc etc.In fact their role is somewhat like the old enrolled nurse.They get paid band 3 which is slightly more than a HCA.

They do not administer drugs,or plan care.Ultimately the staff nurse is the one that carries the can should anything go wrong as CSWs are not accountable like a trained nurse. (am sure in midwifery support role would not deliver babies)but the CSWs on my ward I would trust with my life.

What I do think is sad is that there are not enough properly trained midwives,and a bit like the Community Support officer in policing and the teaching assistant in education the Government has found a way to boost numbers of people on the wards/the beat and in the classroom on the cheap.

fishie · 29/05/2007 22:31

GSS i though exactly the same thing this morning. breastfeeding comes so far down the list of priorities it is barely visible.

i had a newly qualified midwife during the third night of my induction - she didn't label the drip, set up the fetal monitor incorrectly, refused to call for an epidural and spent six hours taking her own blood pressure and telling me to stop complaining. a trainee support worker would have been a welcome sight.

Genidef · 29/05/2007 23:26

fishie what was she doing taking her own blood pressure? practicing? nervous?