Should we ban specific dog breeds?

[blackbirdbluebottle]

I love dogs but I have always been wary of particular breeds such as pit bulls, staffies and breeds that are banned. It's been in the news about banning certain breeds. Do you think we should be banning certain breeds or should we ban the dog on a dog by dog basis?

I've got a cocker spaniel and he's an amazing dog. But even though he's 5, you can never let up on the training and recall. They are very intelligent dogs, need a lot of mental stimulation and physical exercse and it makes me rage to see them kept as family pets with a 5 minute walk each day. Mine gets around 3 - 4 miles a day as well as lots of ball/hiding games in the house else he's like a toddler that's been given coca cola and skittles for breakfast. He is programmed to flush out birds and that is his life mission. Wouldn't swap him for the world but he's not a dog I'd have had with young children as he wouldn't have had the time and attention he needs.

@tabulahrasa

Your example seems to be more about animal cruelty rather than dangerous dogs. And if given the choice I would rather take my chances with a pack of savage Yorkies then a pack of mastiffs. I would rather be scarred then dead.

Look at it this way. We can't stop criminals stabbing each other. But we can stop them getting hold of large weapons that can do maximum damage. I see dogs in the same way. You will always get dick head dog owners. But if they can only keep smaller, weaker breeds they are not going to be as big a risk to the public, other dogs or their own families.

“Your example seems to be more about animal cruelty rather than dangerous dogs.”

Yes, because they were the circumstances...

Research shows that in fatal dog attacks, breed is way less significant than other things, like a previous history of abuse or neglect.

The problem with size is, some of the breeds the public regard as being dangerous are the same size as ones they don’t.

Greyhounds are usually bigger than Dobermans, Rotties, labs and golden retrievers are all a similar size, Staffies are the same size as cocker spaniels...

If people that shouldn’t own dogs didn’t own dogs, it wouldn’t matter what size dog anyone else owned.

I have a presa canto mastiff & a terrier. 100% terrier is more dangerous than mastiff. He is nippy, barks at anything that's moves. My mastiff is a big gentle giant and 100% trust her compared to terrier. I live in countryside with no neighbours so big dog is a must for security. If anyone tried to break in my mastiff would bring them around the house and show there stuff is!!!! A friend was scared of my mastiff but she has met her now and they became friends and now when my friend calls up, she calls up to my dog, with treats!!! I always say it's the owner not the breed.

@Wherismymind I own a big dog (greyhound cross) the most aggressive, likely to bark and bite dogs we meet are in fact the little terriers (yorkies, cairns, little white fluffy things). Even small dogs can cause injury.
It's all due to training, small terrier types need to be trained properly and a lot of time they are not. What people will call endearing or they are just having a yap is aggression. If my large dog behaved in the same way then I would be reported and I've had some run ins where their dogs have attacked mine and she defends herself by getting them on the floor not biting them. My dog has been bleeding and the little dog owner is screaming at me that my dog is dangerous........ Like I say its not the size or the breed its the training

Just out of interest, is there a definitive way to determine a particular breed ?

Or would any "ban" be based on what a bunch of people do (or do not) think ?

“ is there a definitive way to determine a particular breed ?”

Nope

So there's no point in any law then ?

Dogs are beautiful loyal creatures and they don't deserve to be treated as weapons!
They should be seen as part of the family like mine are, I have 2 mastiffs and a staffy and they are just amazing! And so so gentle!

The only law I believe in is stopping these amazing beings going to shit homes and punishment (propper punishment) for people who weaponise them!

Don't get me wrong. I agree little dogs are alot of the time the most aggressive. I find dachunds, Jack Russell's and chiwawas to be particularly aggressive. Although most of the time they are all bark.

But, if an aggressive jack Russel goes for my dog or my kids, I can protect them. I can't protect them from a doberman or a mastiff.

I know it's not the breeds fault it's the owners. But, you will never stop irresponsible people getting dogs and neglecting them, abusing them or raising them to be aggressive. Who would police it, where would the money come from. It would be alot easier to just ban big and/or powerful dogs unless you have a reason and a licence to have it. No it wouldn't reduce dog attacks, but it would lessen the severity of the attacks.

People just need educating. For example statues are one of the most gentle kind and obedient dogs. Collies are prone to nipping, also spaniels. Boxers too. People can be so ignorant comes to dogs. And it's always always the fault of the owner when someone gets hurt.

I don't believe any breed should be banned it's not the dogs breed or otherwise that are responsible it is bad ownership that leads to dogs biting. Staffies are known as "nanny dogs" and are particularly good with children. It's not dogs that are he problem it's people's lack of commitment to good dog ownership regular exercise good food and training and keeping dogs well
Socialised.

If big/powerful breeds were banned tho what would happen to all the large breeds of dog that are already homed and settled??
Would they be put to sleep because of a stupid minority?
Or put in cages to rot?

.... in my eyes that makes us no different to hitler!

I do agree that people need educating and owners of bigger more powerful dogs should ALWAYS have the dogs muzzled when going out for walks ect...
and overbreeding to make money should be banned! It's just adding to the problem as dogs are easier/cheaper for idiots to take on

It makes me so sad to think of all those dogs put down because they have a bad reputation, when they would make loving pets. I agree that it a staffer did bite someone it would do not damage that a tiny dog- the most bitey dog I ever came across was a springer-dor. The bites were not savage but it just bit and bit and bit.

I had a Lab/Staff. Aw was the most perfect loyal dog who was scared of little dogs, minded her own business and was so obedient!

“So there's no point in any law then ?”

Breed specific ones, no... as I said earlier in the thread, we’ve had banned breeds for 30 years and it’s made no difference.

Dogs have been decided to be of pit bull type despite loads of evidence that they’re not, because they look enough like one and behaviour is not a factor either, it’s a ridiculous law.

“It would be alot easier to just ban big and/or powerful dogs“

But what are you classing as big or powerful?

A staffie bitch is more or less the same size as a JRT dog... so if you want staffies banned, how will that work with other dogs that size?

Also, you might think you could protect someone against a smaller dog, but it’s actually a lot harder than you’d think. If you’ve ever tried to break up a dog fight, it’s actualky easier to stop a large dog, there are bits of body you can grab that aren’t as close to teeth and they can’t dash away and bite again as easily, they’re much slower.

If big/powerful breeds were banned tho what would happen to all the large breeds of dog that are already homed and settled??
Would they be put to sleep because of a stupid minority?
Or put in cages to rot?

Just neuter the existing ones and ban further imports and breeding. In 15 years the ones on the banned list would have all died out.

Staffies would have to go due to jaw strength rather than size.

my dogs been attacked a few times by a Springer spaniel, a French bulldog of all things and an Akita. it was quite clear the guy with the Akita enjoyed having an aggressive dog and so I'm sure they have all been owner related problems, not breed specific.

@Wherismymind banning the big dogs or staffies won't make a difference, the people who want to train their dogs to be aggressive will just find a different breed. This has already been seen with the way that people have misused dogs. Which means that the list will get longer and longer with no real effect.
The real solution is controlling the people who are allowed dogs.

“Staffies would have to go due to jaw strength rather than size.”

And you’re basing that on?...

They’ve never been included in any studies on bite force, the studies that have been done are tiny.

In the studies that have been done, bite force correlates with head size and shape, so it’s likely that staffies have a higher bite force than a JRT, but not of a larger dog, springers, collies, labs... they’re all larger than staffies.

Staffies are much smaller than most people think they are, they really are quite small dogs.

but not of a larger dog,

Yeah but in my world we're banning all large dogs too. You can have small, toy and mini breeds that's all unless you have a reason and a licence.

Well no, in your world you’re banning pretty much everything apart from chihuahuas...

Acceptable size for a staffy starts at 11 inches, that’s the same size as mini poodles, pomerainians and JRT...

@Wherismymind you're being ridiculous. Some of the most family friendly dogs are larger breeds. And what about all the labradors bred for being guide dogs who don't make the grade - do they get killed instead of going to pet homes as they currently do?! I really don't think you've thought this through at all, it's completely unworkable.

Well of course I've not thought it through. I'm not actually a government official working on a method to minimise dog attacks.

So I was thinking keep golden retrievers and labs - but then when the bad owners can't get bull breeds for fighting they may go for those and turn them mean. So I thought just get rid of all big ones. Staffies are banned based on their strength. They're pure muscle, a poodles is all skin and bones so size is not relevant.

What to do with the spare working dogs is a good question. Maybe you can have one for free if you pass a test but your not allowed to sell, pass on or breed it.

“a poodles is all skin and bones so size is not relevant.”

So poodles are the exception to no larger than toy breeds because they’re slender?

What about greyhounds and Salukis then? There’s nothing to them either...

It’s a hard one because dogs can only be a mirror of their owners, and unfortunately there are a lot of shit dog owners around which means badly behaved dogs. I don’t think pit bulls or staffs etc are inherently evil dogs, but I think they need an experienced and suitable dog owner. Unfortunately many of the people who do own these dogs are idiots, encouraging aggression or treating their dogs like crap (eg leaving them outside all day) and can’t manage their dog’s behaviour appropriately in hectic situations.

Dogs like huskies and German Shepard’s can be quite aggressive too. In my area I have seen huskies that are aggressive towards humans and their owner literally has to wrap most of the lead around their hand, cross the road and detour, try to stop them barking at passers by. I have also seen a man with his roughly 10 year old daughter walking a German shepherd, as in the daughter was the one personally controlling the dog. Obviously she couldn’t control the dog appropriately and her dad was instead getting angry at other park users (huffing things like ‘why didn’t you cross the road???’) when his dog starting dragging his daughter around, instead of him just holding the dog’s leash himself! Some owners are just fucking stupid.