Parental rights

[julianutwood]

I was unhappy to receive a letter from the G.P's surgery requiring me to ask my 13 and 14 year olds to give me continuing access to their medical welfare/records and suggesting my sons might wish to withdraw parental consent. If a child who has just passed his/her 13th birthday is capable of making medical decisions without his/her parents then why can't that child vote? I think this is the State intruding where it has no right to intrude. What do other Mums think?

Its fair enough that children might want to speak to medical staff without parents' knowledge, but it makes me laugh how medical staff think everybody trusts them more than they do partners/parents etc.

Not sure why you think this is the state intruding. The state gave you the right to see your child's medical records in most situations. However, they are entitled to be treated in confidence if the doctor judges them competent to make that decision. If they have medical issues that they don't want you to know about they need to be able to trust the doctor. If they don't, the issue may go untreated with potentially serious consequences.

but it makes me laugh how medical staff think everybody trusts them more than they do partners/parents

I don't know any medical staff who think that. However, I do know children who need treatment and don't want their parents to know. They would rather take the risk of leaving their problem untreated than have their parents find out.

There's no such thing as 'parental rights'

You have none. The 'rights' are with the child

I had testing done at 14 without parental knowledge, as my DM had paranoia including medical staff so wouldn't have let me but I was having regular palpitations and was found to have very high blood pressure so needed hospital tests to check for causes before they put me on blood pressure medication.

If they hadn't kept that confidential I wouldn't have been allowed the testing or medication. Its a none issue for most situations but could also be an issue in situations where teenagers may not get birth control if they think their parents will find out for example.

RunMummyRun68. What do you mean by saying "there is no such thing as Parental rights?" A parent still had a right to remove their child from Sex Education in both primary and secondary schools.
A parent decides what school their child attends, etc etc.

Leap Toad. Do you really think it's a good thing that a girl just after her 13th birthday can get the pill from the G.P. without her parents' knowledge/can have an abortion without her parents' knowledge? I, and many other parents think this is a deplorable situation.

Sending your kid to school is part of your responsibilities

Responsibility means you make judgement on what you feel is right for your child

Children's act states the rights lie with the child. Parents merely have responsibilities

Yes I do think that's a good thing. Not everyone is in the same situation, in some teenagers circumstances their parents finding out about an abortion or pregnancy could make the situation much worse.

And I would rather a teenager be able to get contraception than not through fear of their parents finding out.
What about a child seeking help about self harm or depression who doesn't want their parents to know? Would you rather they have to decide between telling their parents and being able to seek help too?

Of course its a good thing. Its avoiding young girls becoming parents. How is that not a good thing?

Bit of a weird thread this one!

Basically, anyone who is a 'professional', can claim they are acting in a child's best interests, and do what they like. A professional acting in a child's best interests overrides a parent acting in a child's best interests.

Basically, anyone who is a 'professional', can claim they are acting in a child's best interests, and do what they like

Simply not true. As we saw in the Alfie Evans case, when they wanted to turn of Alfie's life support against the parents' wishes the hospital had to apply to the courts for permission. The courts do not always side with the professionals.

If I judge that a child of 14 is competent to understand the consequences of a pill prescription, how to take it and that it does not guard against STIs then yes I would prescribe it if clinically suitable. I’d also want to know the age of their partner, if they had a regular partner because, as I say at the beginning of these consultations;
“ what you tell me is private, between us. It doesn’t go outside this room unless I think that you might be in danger. Then I might have to tell someone”
The question you always ask is “ do you talk to your parents about these things” if they say not, I ask why not? Some dc have very good rational reasons why they don’t want to tell parents - very strict religious/cultural beliefs is the usual one but in these circumstances I still encourage sharing if they feel they can.
It’s not an every day ( or even every year) occurrence to prescribe without parents knowledge but it does happen. What would you do op?

The courts do not always side with the professionals
The courts sided with the professionals, because they all close ranks

The courts sided with the professionals, because they all close ranks

In the Alfie Evans case the courts sided with the professionals because the evidence was clear that they were right. There are other cases where the courts did not side with the professionals.

Do you really think it's a good thing that a girl just after her 13th birthday can get the pill from the G.P. without her parents' knowledge/can have an abortion without her parents' knowledge?

As long as she’s been competent to make those decisions, yes, absolutely.

Been deemed competent

The courts sided with the professionals, because they all close ranks

The courts sided with the professionals, because they were right.

At 13-14 a teen is considered Fraser competent for many kinds of medical treatment - this means they are deemed able to consent, or not consent, and in most cases there is little or nothing their parents can do about it.

And this is called 'letting your children grow up'. If you are worried that your children won't tell you what is going on in their lives, perhaps you should be asking yourself why that might be - and what you are going to do to change that situation.

Well, I'm interested to tell all you Mums who have responded that the letter proved to be ILLEGAL, and the surgery have had to write to everyone and withdraw it! So you are all defending an illegal letter!!

I don't know who told them it was illegal but they are wrong. Unless it says something other than what you have reported here it was not illegal. Far from it. It was a correct statement of the law. It is illegal to allow parents to access their child's records when the child is competent to act for themselves and has refused permission. That is a breach of the Data Protection Act. You can see the official NHS guidance on the subject here. Note the first paragraph of the section headed, "Are there situations in which access to the child’s records can be refused".

Thinking further, if the letter proposed a blanket policy whereby all children aged 13 and above were regarded as competent to refuse access to medical records that would be difficult to justify. However, if a 13 year old is assessed as Fraser competent, parents should only be allowed to access their medical records if the child consents.

The letter may well have been illegal in that it assumes all 13-14 year olds are Fraser competent - this should in fact be assessed on a case by case basis. A 14 year old may be competent to decide whether or not to have one procedure, but may not be for a different one which has greater implications. So in that sense, the surgery acted incorrectly.

However, this does not mean that your 13-14 year old children do not have a right to confidentiality between them and their GP, nor that the GP must always tell you about every aspect of their treatment if your sons have asked that they not do so. Because you do not own your children. Your triumphalist tone is therefore misplaced.

I absolutely want my DDs to have somewhere they can go that is not me, should they feel they need it. My DD2 has had counselling at school - I did not ask what was discussed. I do not want to know, I have no right to know. It is between her and the counsellor except where there are potentially greater implications. At some point, your children will grow up and you will no longer have control over them. Your attitude around allowing them confidentiality - around trusting them - will colour your relationship with them as adults. Think about that.