"Put them away please Mum" - Sunday Times Ecosse section

[JanZ]

Unless you live in Scotland, you won't have had the pleasure of this article .

It had me apoplectic yesterday - with dh trying to tell me "chill out, just ignore it, you know articles/people like that aren't worth the energy". Didn't stop me reading out sections outragedly.

There are SO many different things I could say to refute her argumens, but I'll just say my vindictive closing thought, in response to her final paragraph: I HOPE, when she does have kids, and goes to try and express, that she is one of those that either can't express or has a baby that refuses the bottle. THEN see how much she enjoys being stuck permanently in the house because she doesn't want to "flaunt" breast feeding.

What absolute RUBBISH she talks. I know when I b/f (ds to a year), I always tried to do so discreetly - and once ds was attached, you'd have been hard pressed to see any skin (unless you were REALLY ogling) and ds just looked like he was having a snuggle. I have NEVER seen anyone "flaunting" it.

expat kate,

your comments are really interesting (number 2 anyway). I'm expecting my first and I confess that before I was pregnant I automatically assumed that all mums were a pain in the ass, for all those reasons. I would tut in s/markets when I saw toddlers having tantrums etc etc.

It IS a wierd thing being childless, beacuse you can't possibly understand what it is like to be a parent or what is normal behaviour for a wee sprog. What is even wierder, that instead of being happily bewildered by parenting/kids, there is (was for me anyway) a strange anger/resentment directed at parents whenever their kids innocently invade your life or personal space (crying on trains etc).

I never felt that way about BF though, probably because my mum BF my brother and sister (born when I was 15) so I've always seen it as a totally normal way of feeding. I find it very worrying that this woman obviously has problems, and that her irrational fear of breasts is published as normal behaviour in a newspaper.

I find it extraordinary that you can say that before you were pregnant you assumed all mums were a pain in the ass, Highlander. But the very fact that you can say it on a forum like Mumsnet shows just how widespread and socially accepted those attitudes are. I wonder why we have developed such terrible hostility to mothers and children in our society?

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Oh yes, expatkat, how right you are about the Smug Bornagain Mummies. I try very, very hard not to be sucked into that 'oh, people without children can never understand how transcendental the experience of parenting my little psychopath is' but suspect I fall into it too.

meanbean, I hope I haven't upset you by airing my 'pre-pregnancy' thoughts on parenting!

The wierd thing is now that I'm pregnant, my views have obviously (thankfully!) changed. But it is very, very interesting being in the company of friends who still have those views and are childless.

It upsets me now.

I've just caught up with this thread......

I can't believe this woman was allowed to submit this rubbish - and it then got printed....

God gave us breasts so we could feed, nurture and care for our babies. The fact that the media and today's society has given them a different role is not the point. I have breastfed in public as much as necessary since having my DD (I hasten to add that I did wait until I had mastered doing it discreetly).
If I could access the Times website (am overseas so can't without paying and having read that article I'm loath to give them any money!) I would be writing to them.....
One of the main 'selling' points about BF is that you can do it anywhere, don't have to faff around sterlising/pumping/freezing/defrosting and carrying bottlefeeding paraphenalia - surely as many of you have said, it is the media's responsibility to encourage BF? Most mothers (myself included) are so tired and busy that BF helps make life easier.

I do feel that it's appropriate to be discreet (due to ignorant & foolish people also existing)....however that article has really made my blood boil.

I'm going to be in Scotland this October and hopefully will still be BF my DD then (she'll be 10 months).........I'll have to remember to make a point of breastfeeding her in public, discreetly, as much as possible!! LOL for my DH!!!

mit x

Highlander , I'm not upset, just think it is bizarre that we as a society are so infantaphobic. I agree with Twiglett that children shouldn't be treated as if they are the the centre of the universe all the time, but think in this country we go much too far the other way in pushing them (and therefore their carers, who are in the main, women) out to the margins. There are just so many environments which are not geared up to children, where people caring for children have to go and where they are treated as if they are lawbreakers. In many shops, if you have children with you, you are treated with less respect than a shoplifter! And I can't see why that is necesary or healthy. Italy is always quoted in discussions like this, but the reason it's a cliche is because it's true - you really are treated differently there when you are with children - it's like stepping into a warm bath...and you get a glimpse of how much pleasanter life could be here if there were not quite so much hostility to children (and by extension, mothers). And it's not because they have better facilities or anything, they haven't particularly geared things towards children, there's just a healthy acceptance of them. It's a completely different attitude. Sorry, we've come quite a long way from BF, but I think it is connected (somewhere along the line)!

What angers me most is the amount of people who get paid to write complete and utter rubbish.

I think you are right MeanBean. Its interesting having an autistic child as well- because the behaviour he exhibits in public is often so bizarre- but can look (if you are happy to jump to quick conclusions) like very bad behaviour- mainly as it involves a lot of screaming and a lot of running.

I was dreading going to France with him last year as I had heard the French had a very poor understanding of autism- but I have to say we had far less trouble over there than we did here. We even took him to TWO restaurants- proper ones with no problems. One of us took him outside whilst we were waiting for food and it was fine. We can't even do supposedly family friendly restaurants here as we get so many evil looks and comments. Everyone was very accepting of him, completely unfazed by the autism and didn't start tutting immediately he did something bizarre. Maybe because they weren't so quick to jump in with the tutting and terrible child comments they actually got enough of a picture of him to realise that he was not exactly on this planet.

"Sounds like one repressed lady to me - there are bosom free zones already - the burkah wearing zones" -- posyhairdresser

Actually, I've seen several people say that in conservative Muslim societies veiled women happily whip out breasts to feed babies. This is not considered seductive the way uncovered hair would be; it's considered feeding your baby, and if it's appropriate for a woman to be somewhere, it's appropriate for her to feed her baby there.

The only negative reaction I've gotten to feeding in public was very mild (previously friendly people suddenly pointedly ignoring my adorable baby and looking stonefaced) but one set was from another mother of a bf baby. She took her baby away to feed. Hey I may be exhibitionist but at least I got to eat my dinner while it was still warm. (And seriously, most of the time there's nothing to see unless you're crouching at my feet or keeping an eye out while I'm doing things up or undoing them.)

"I don?t doubt that a woman with a newborn has so much on her mind, all consideration of other people goes out the window."

I found this line quite poignant. This 'lady' (grimace ) has no idea how it feels to LOVE a baby. How sad that she shows so little potential for doing so in the future.
Motherhood is bound to hit her like a tonne of s* - sit tight lady; one day you'll learn selflesness.

Ha ha, wait until she does have children. She'll have a shock when she realises that babies won't wait until they get home to be fed, and that public toilets smell like, well, toilets.
And she'll be the first one to moan when she can't have her latte while feeding her baby in peace.
Sad, lonely woman who's secretly broody, and in denial that her body clock's ticking (says the amateur psychologist). Oh, and a shoddy journalist to boot as she's obviously not researched properly. Silly cow.

LOL, this silly woman has to be a nippy sweetie if you ask me!

Can't you just imagine her sitting there with sucked in pursed lips, tutting away while some poor woman feeds her baby.

I can't believe anyone finds BF disgusting. I've seen one of my friends BF her daughter and thought it was lovely. I hope to BF when I have my baby and want to say three cheers for Elaine Smith.

"I don?t doubt that a woman with a newborn has so much on her mind, all consideration of other people goes out the window."

ROFL at this as well. When number 3 is born the last thing on my mind will be the newborn. He/she'll still be bfed though.

Ooh I really want to find her- whap out my baps bfeed number 3 whilst autistic ds1 throws an autistic fit next to her (even better if he goes up to her and sniffs her which is his recent thing) and ds2 does his usual shouting as he doesn't seem to know how to talk quiety. hmmm it would give me such pleasure.

i hardly see anyone else breastfeeding in public-or is it that i just dont notice anymore?

jimjams id love to hunt her down too-maybe we should have a mners day out and go and lynch her

I do think she's a sad and desperate single who resents what she doesn't have and may never have. I know that's not pc, but I think the feature reeks of it. I did a quick google and found a thing she'd written about having to go on holiday with her parents. Enough said.