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Original poster

"Put them away please Mum" - Sunday Times Ecosse section

92 replies

JanZ · 26/07/2004 11:37

Unless you live in Scotland, you won't have had the pleasure of this article .

It had me apoplectic yesterday - with dh trying to tell me "chill out, just ignore it, you know articles/people like that aren't worth the energy". Didn't stop me reading out sections outragedly.

There are SO many different things I could say to refute her argumens, but I'll just say my vindictive closing thought, in response to her final paragraph: I HOPE, when she does have kids, and goes to try and express, that she is one of those that either can't express or has a baby that refuses the bottle. THEN see how much she enjoys being stuck permanently in the house because she doesn't want to "flaunt" breast feeding.

What absolute RUBBISH she talks. I know when I b/f (ds to a year), I always tried to do so discreetly - and once ds was attached, you'd have been hard pressed to see any skin (unless you were REALLY ogling) and ds just looked like he was having a snuggle. I have NEVER seen anyone "flaunting" it.

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Original poster
JanZ · 26/07/2004 12:36

"Ecosse" is used quite a lot: car stickers (for those that wanted to have someting in addtion to GB) using it used to be quite common, although now you can also get "Sco" surrounded by the European flag. It's normally not a bad section.

I haven't even got around to rading India Knight's article yet - I was already apoplectic anough!

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Original poster
JanZ · 26/07/2004 12:59

By the way, I think it was on Page 3 of the Ecoss supplement (but I'll check when I get home) for those of you who might want to respond!

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MeanBean · 26/07/2004 13:01

Or mean flagellant... hmm

MeanBean · 26/07/2004 13:01

Or even mean flatulent.

OK will stop now.

hewlettsdaughter · 26/07/2004 13:27

binkie - I agree that it's trolling under the guise of journalism - but I'm not sure you're right that it doesn't make life harder. Surely someone unsure about bf in public might be put off, believing that there are people - women moreover - that really think like this?

hmb · 26/07/2004 13:31

Moan Flagellant

hana · 26/07/2004 13:47

When I was bfing dd I never asked if I could - if we were out in cafes, restaurants etc. I just DID and got on with it. AM thinking up my response to the paper now....

lonelymumof3 · 26/07/2004 13:47

If she ever has kids, I would like to see her try and find somewhere to feed her baby in private that isnt the ladies loo!!....she will soon change her mind! Stupid woman.

binkie · 26/07/2004 13:57

hewlettsdaughter, you are right. I'd taken for granted that women in doubt would know where to go for sensible balanced support - eg here - & don't take their cues from weekend page-fillers - but of course that isn't always going to be the case. So a response along the lines of "don't listen to her, come and join us" might be in order?

mummytosteven · 26/07/2004 14:01

also articles like that contribute to a general climate in society of intolerance towards bfing. I had a general discussion with my childless friends about bfing in public (following on from the bfing and National Gallery story) and was dismayed that they seemed to think sending women to the loos to bf was acceptable

Original poster
JanZ · 26/07/2004 14:53

Mummytosteven - that is part of why I was so annoyed. The West of Scoltand has such a poor rate of b/f, and then you get articles such as this. We should be trying to encourage people, not put them off.

It's not the (reasonably) confident people like me that will be put off - we were always going to b/f. It's the not-so-confident people, who will find articles such as this just confirming all their fears.

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Tinker · 26/07/2004 15:05

Started to read the article and then got bored with how tedious it was and though what a sad person the unheard of journalist. Agree with binkie - trolling a la Julie Burchill to make a name for yourself. Tedious 6th form opinions. Best not to write to the paper AT ALL I think, don't give her the satisfaction.

tabitha · 26/07/2004 15:10

What a sad cow Fiona McCade must be
Personally, I have never seen anyone breast-feeding a baby indiscreetly in public and on the fes occasions I have done it, I think I've managed to stay pretty much covered up. I actually wish more women would do it purely because it is natural and normal. The way she goes on you would think that b/feeders are sad exhibitionists who get some kind of biazarre kick out of 'whapping them out in public'.
It's a perfect example of why childless women should keep their gobs firmly shut when talking about babies / children. Hopefully one day, if she ever does have kids, she'll look back at this piffle and cringe.

suedonim · 26/07/2004 15:14

I soooo wish I hadn't read that article. It's made my headache worse.

As for this comment - "I would like to think that there are at least some places I could legally go to get away from it." - I suggest she stays indoors for the rest of her life, preferably without contact with the outside world, so the rest of us can get away from her

marthamoo · 26/07/2004 15:29

Tend to agree with Tinker - such a pathetic non-article, obviously written in a way designed to stir up controversy - best thing to do would be completely ignore it. Imagine how galling for the silly woman to get no comeback on it at all. Thought she managed to offend just about everyone - right down to the extremely racist and po-faced "Scotland is not sub-Saharan Africa". (Subtext: God forbid we should behave like savages). Methinks Ms McCade wants a job with the Daily Mail!

ks · 26/07/2004 15:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TurnAgainCat · 26/07/2004 15:39

Can't believe it either. Quite depressing, actually really disturbing, that some childless women want to put mothers into purdah. Next thing, she will be writing that pregnant bellies make her sick, and why can't pregnant women stay indoors! Let's reassure ourselves that any woman who writes such an article has got a weird complex about her own femininity and breasts!

xoz · 26/07/2004 15:55

I'm completely and utterly flabbergasted!!!!! Someone ought to find out where this person lives and arrange an around the clock breastfeeding picket outside her house or outside the Times offices!!!
I never asked permission to feed either of my dds wherever I was (do I need to ask permission to eat?) and if anyone ever said anything to me about it I said "You wouldn't eat in the toilet would you???!!! Unbelievable.... what total rubbish!!!! She is going to be so ashamed of herself one day.... How I would love to be a fly on the wall if she ever does have a child.

Piffleoffagus · 26/07/2004 16:00

can't wait until SHE is stuck on the m25 carpark on a saturday afternoon alongside a truck and her baby is screaming its own little tits off...
I defy her not to whip it out and feed her baby,
she is just fucking stupid and getting on the not holier than thou pro mothering bandwagon.
I'll feed my babies when and where and how the HELL I LIKE. I'll tell anyone who contests my right to do so to piss off, or assert my rights by asking them to physically remove me.
And I also bet all my considerable wealth, that no member of the public, will EVER see any of my breast unless they are too under my t shirt.
Why do people NOT address page 3, why is it more acceptable to see Victoria Beckhams bronze paps, jade goody seen topless and preggers in Spain, if she b/f her next child will it suddenly become distasteful.
WHY do these people think women have TITS!!!!!!!
I coud go on I am sooooooooooooooo incensed.
I am going to get a t shirt printed...
These are for someone I gave birth to actually...

Original poster
JanZ · 26/07/2004 16:10

I've been podering a response. I DO beleive it needs something - if only to reassure those "waverers" who this apology of a journalist may have put off.

I think it needs to along the lines of "pained but construcitve sadness":

Along the lines of:

Sorry that she has such a problem with mothers trying to do the best for their babies and that that the sad reality is that in Scotland very few mothers breast feed their babies, so the legislation is to be welcomed if that will encourage a few more to give b/f a go.

A practical point that bottle (and EBM) fed babies also cry, need winding (in fact b/f babies need LESS winding apparently - can't comment as ds never suffered from wind) and vomit. That b/f is a way of ensuring maximum peace in the shortest time.

Memo to self: REFRAIN from adding snidy comment about how I hope when she does deign to have children herself, that she is indeed able to make use of expressing equipment, as many women can't - or find they that it is far too much hassle to add to all the other stresses and strains that a new baby brings.

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hmb · 26/07/2004 16:15

I wouldn't want to quote this statistic, as I can't be 100% sure that it is correct, but I have been told in the past that the % of women bf on leaving hospital in Glasgow is 8%!

Glasgow has one of the worst dietry levels in the UK, and why I wonder?

And if so few people are bf in scotland, why does this woman feel that she is about to be surrounded by lactation woman.

Daft cow.

Original poster
JanZ · 26/07/2004 17:03

it's not as bad as that: across Scotland (and Glasgow is worse - although working hard to address it), the statistic is 36.5% at 6-8 weeks. The latest (2003) stats are 45.1% (exclusive) and 53.3% (any) breastfeeding at 7 days.

However, this is HIGHLY post code dependent. There are some deprived areas of Glasgow where there will almost NO breast feeding - or even any attempt to do so. The only saving grace about this article is that probably not many Sunday Times are sold in those areas!

This woman may well be surrounded by "West End" yummy mummies - but my experience of them (and I went to a b/f support group which DID have the odd evening in the West End - ironically enough, MINUS babies!) is that the last thing they would do would be to flaunt it - they were just desparately getting the hang of DOING it!

But I suspect it is more to do with her hung ups that she feel threatened by the IDEA of having b/f women around. from her descriptions, she can't have seen many "real" women breast feeding.

Or maybe she has and hasn't even realised .

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posyhairdresser · 26/07/2004 17:18

Sounds like one repressed lady to me - there are bosom free zones already - the burkah wearing zones.

hmb · 26/07/2004 17:23

When i had dd in Dundee 7.5 years ago the mw told me that not only did they have awful probelms getting mothers to even consider bf, they were having to work hard to stamp out 'prop' feeding with a bottle ie sitting baby in a chair and propping up a bottle on pillows. The mothers were not even holding their babes when they were bottle feeding!

tallulah · 26/07/2004 17:44

I can't believe anyone would print this, & found myself wondering whether she's a 6th former on work experience

Having fed mine in restaurants, in shops, on a hovercraft (!) & anywhere else they needed feeding, I'm sure I never dangled MY udders in anyone's face!

"For many observers, an infant eating is not necessarily a pretty sight". I find the sight of many adults eating not entirely pleasant. There are a huge number of people who eat with their mouths open & are generally revolting to look at. I quite often get put off my food by the other diners in restaurants. I think I'll start my own campaign to ban people from eating in public if they can't do it nicely. There!