Numbers of school exclusions rise sharply

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I quote but one example:-

In the reception year alone, 60 pupils aged four or five were expelled in just 12 months - a three-fold increase compared to year earlier. A further 960 - or five a day - were suspended.

I can think of many reasons why this is happening, how can such problems be addressed?.

i dont think exclusion is the answer either. i just dont think that holding the schools responsible for the failings of parents is the answer and that we cannot deal with this problem until we look in the right direction.

maybe by the time the school gets to that point it thinks that if they exclude the child the parent may get some help?

dunno
dunno

just a thought

actually thats a very good point

"Allowing children to run riot without the fear of the rod is why we have such undisciplined, rude, violent and feral kids nowadays. It should be child abuse NOT to smack/cane/discipline your child when they're naughty, and this should be applied to teachers too".

The above seems to be a widely held view on another web forum on this subject.

Yeah, let's beat the little buggers!!.
God is this really what some people are like these days?.

I was at school when corporal punishment was allowable and it made NO difference at all to these childrens' behaviour. The same people were punished by the cane over and over and their behaviour did not change. They just saw it as "big".

As their parents did not think education (and by turn respect for any figures in authority) was at all important they did not. Small wonder therefore they carried on as they did.

Custy, I love you and want to have your babies (again).

Unsupported SEN need to be properly supported, but we are seeing increasing numbers of children statemented for BD, with no conditions like ASD and ADHD.

Re behaviour in primary, SIL teachers in Promary and was tolf to 'Fuck off you cunt by a tiny child'

That isn't the schools fault, it is the parents!

We have jsut had a spate of exclusions for things like carrying knives in school and assaulting teachers and other children.

Sorry, but these kids deserved to be excluded. Actually many of the deserved to be arrested

MB

I would agree with you entirely but I'm coming across people who say, "Bring back the cane. It wasn't like this in my day".

I would ask them why and how such violent actions would at all address the underlying problems to do with lack of discipline at home, chaotic home life.

I know of two boys in my son's Junior school who are a complete nightmare. They constantly get into trouble both in and out of class. Their parents of these two have been called into school and these parents don't give a monkeys. They also have no respect for anyone in authority. Small wonder therefore the children behave as they do; they know no different and their Mum has said that she lets them do what they like without consequence.

MB - i believe i have your babies - three of them - collect them when you have some spare time all teenagers now.

I think these figures are for primary schools though and the des says they are because of tougher measures being taken

I don't think that the cane is the answer. But I do think, as Custy says that parentuing classes are potentially a huge benefit.

I get tired of dealing with the poor behaviour of the same kids , over and over again. These are very often kids who's parents have no control over them at all. The parents will acuse us of 'picking on' their kids, right up to the point where the police are involved. At which point they start to shout 'why didn't the school do something'.

Dicipline needs to be positive, predictable, consistant and start asap. In school and out of school.

The schools are blamed for all of this, I think that there are a subset of parents who need to look closer to home.

Custy, when do I pick 'em up and what do I owe you

immediatley - nothing they are free!

I can't atm, the dog has eaten my marking

It is horrific to see the poor behaviour in increasing numbers of 11 year olds. These are NT kids I'm talking about. Children who will simply refuse to do work, any work, of any level if it isn't 'fun'. They assume that they are in school to be entertained, not educated.

Numbers caught carrying wepons is on the real rise in our school.

Foul and abusive language is becoming the order of the day

the point about the cane is that although it did nothing for the really bad kids, who got it over and over and over, it did make a hell of a lot of the others think twice. it worked as an example. if you behave like X, you've going to get what he's getting right now - look - . and because many of them didn't want that, they didn't go as far as X, who was a little swine and wouldn't have stopped if you'd shoved the cane up his arse and mounted him on the school gates.

and while i am 1000% opposed to physical punishment and do not want to bring back the cane and do not hit/slap/tap/slipper my kids, i do feel that the concept of action leads to consequence is missing from life more and more these days.

MB

Re your comment, "I don't think that the cane is the answer" I am glad you agree with me.

Caning the two boys I have previously mentioned will make no difference at all to their behaviours. Parenting classes for the parents of these two particular boys would also have no effect as they have no respect for any authority figure be it police, school, council workers etc. They'd say to the parenting class teacher, "I've got kids older than you".

Weak headmasters and headteachers are also a problem - the head at my son's school said to some well known troublemaker, "I'm on your side". These kids don't need such woolliness.

Perhaps making parents legally responsible by way of a legally binding contract for their children's behaviour in school and fining them accordingly for trangressions may be one way forward. That and drumming into children from Reception age each and every year that such behaviour is unacceptable and not at all tolerated.

"The point about the cane is that although it did nothing for the really bad kids, who got it over and over and over, it did make a hell of a lot of the others think twice".

I would certainly agree with the first part of this sentence.

I don't though think seeing these boys caned made the others think twice. They just did not have that mindset as they wanted to do well in school and took education and qualifications from same seriously.

"That and drumming into children from Reception age each and every year that such behaviour is unacceptable and not at all tolerated."

this I feel has to be one answer they need to know boundarys and our more exprienced teachers should be put at these grass roots level

I dont believe in the cane either I agree that this just teaches them the wrong things about there actions

i would have loved to go to parenting classes on managing behaviour and still ould but they aent open to everybody which is a shame

Looking at the places with the most exclusions, I do think SN could be one factor. I know Portsmouth, at the top of the list, has an horrendous waiting list for initial SALT assessment. They've had three external reports into what a shambles the department is and an internal reorganisation that was supposed to sort it out, but last time I heard waiting list was still 18 months or more. That obviously means children are starting school with real communication difficulties, which must affect behaviour. If they can't understand the teachers, how can they understand what is expected of them, for a start?

I fully agree that SEN support is key for children with SEN, but many, many of these children don't have SEN other than EBD.

Their problem is cause by behavioural issues that are not driven by other SEN like ASD or ADHD or communication disorders.

This is not to say that their probelms are not 'real' and that they don't need addressing, but often they have to be addressed at home as well as at school. And often (though obviously not always) some parents will not/ can not/ don't see the help in doing the follow up at home.

And however sorry I might feel for the parents who lack the skills, we can't just kiss these probelms of, and kiss off the kids chances.

What we need is early intevntion with things like nurture groups in school and legally enforced parenting orders on the families. Not as a punishment, but as a way to brake the cycle of deprivation and poor parenting.