Abortion clinic protests to be banned?

[StealthPolarBear]

Really hope so, this would be a fantastic step forward
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42129222

@Topher2488 you don't seem to understand that your "peaceful" protest is harassment of women using a legal health service. You are also protesting at the wrong people. If you want to make abortion illegal then you need to be talking to your MP, lobbying parliament and protesting outside the Houses of Parliament.

Demonstrating against the women using the service is designed to bully and intimidate them into not going through with an abortion that they want or need. What else are you doing there if not that?

slow hand clap

Fuckity bye Topher.

I've called your ilk lazy virtue signallers and you strop off right away. Now I see why haranguing women outside clinics is more of your thing. We are a bit more challenging, no?

You would have won a modicum of respect from me if you stuck around and answered the question of how many children have you fostered or adopted? Or how you have campaigned for NRPs to have to pay for their children so single parenthood isn't a one way ticket to destitution for a big chunk of women.

This rank hypocrisy is part of the reason secularism is on the rise and church attendance is falling.

There is no justification at all for "pro-life" protesters to stand outside an abortion clinic. Never, ever.

There used to be a regular group of protesters outside a clinic near to where I lived who didn't shout or chant, so Topher would probably say that they weren't harassing the women using the facility.

However, they held great big placards of the Virgin Mary, along with large pictures of a foetus at various stages of development (handily labelled in large letters), and knelt on the pavement right up to the exclusion zone line and prayed loudly about saving the souls of sinners

Can anyone genuinely claim that that was the best / only / appropriate place for a prayer meeting? How were they doing anything other than trying to guilt trip women into having a baby?

OlennasWimple while I would agree with the point those people were making, I confess I'm a bit uncomfortable about the way they did it. I think it's wrong to refer to a woman as a "sinner" for having an abortion. In fact I think it's wrong to try and bring religion into this matter. That's not to say I have a problem with people who are religious, I don't, and I'm perfectly happy for people to have their faith and follow it, but bringing it up when we are talking about very controversial and very divisive political issues is unhelpful.

What are you doing protesting if not trying to bully/intimidate women into not having an abortion?

I get a distinct "holier than thou" impression from Topher. The only form of protesting she hasn't criticised is her own.

"He", I think @acatcalledjohn.

*Topher,
*
What time exactly did you hope to achieve with your protest? Other than to persuade women to not have an abortion? You have no business doing that, none at all.

Good point.

I'm surprised Topher left their ivory tower to mingle in this corner of the Internet, especially considering that we women still carry the burden of original sin and need to be punished for it.

Anti-abortion protest is just a convenient cover for perpetuating misogyny based on the actions of a mythological figure. If it wasn't abortion, it would be something else.

In honour of Topher and their religious fervour, I really need to find time to protest at goat farms for the actions of their satyr ancestors leading hunter/gatherers astray with their woodland bacchanals. Those cloven rascals.

You have to protect the right to protest, but there should be an exclusion zone around the entrance and they should not be allowed to approach people.

I watched this on the BBC and was horrified about some of the things these protesters said to these women citing ‘freedom of speech’. It’s harassment, plain and simple.

An important point was raised though, the right to access healthcare with anonymity should be protected.

I await to see an abortion protester offering to take on the baby and raise it. Especially if it is severely disabled or going to die at or soon after birth. I also wait to see them complaining that the fathers are 'murderers'.

If they did that, and didn't think their beliefs made them immune from contempt, I'd support their right to protest.

@DollyLlama why do they need to protest outside the clinics? If they want a law change then they need to be protesting at their MPs and other government representatives. Protesting outside these clinics is done to harass and bully the women using the services into not attending for a legal medical service. That's not freedom of speech.

@AssassinatedBeauty I do agree, I don’t make the laws though. I’m simply stating that protesting should be protected. My opinion that these protesters are scum doesn’t really give a balanced view which I’m trying to put across.

A peaceful protest is one thing, bullying vulnerable women is another.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

So limiting freedom of speech here is the beginning of other erosions of rights.

Kursk - where to begin with responding to your point.

1. For one thing, no one is saying the protesters have no rights to an opinion but rather, in addition to mocking them (I certainly do) multiple posters have pointed out all the places people who disagree with abortion can protest that are more effective and don't infringe on patients' rights.

2. There is no such thing as free speech in the UK. Between laws to deal with harassment, public order offences, slander, hate speech etc., there really isn't crystal clear First Amendment style rights here.

To turn it on its head, would you defend an EDL protest outside a mosque or gurdwara? Even one where they are holding a silent vigil against people they don't believe belong in the UK.

Would you defend a protest outside a gay nightclub, even one where the protesters "are simply praying for the souls" and holding up placards depicting hellfire and brimstone aimed at revellers therein?

Why shouldn't women be afforded simple privacy on health matters?

While they would disagree, my personal opinion is that anti-abortion protesters are bellends and deserve no extra special rights than racists or homophobes.

3. No rights are being removed because they didn't exist in the first place. Issues such as the protests are becoming a deal now because of growing awareness via social media, increased uptake of the clinics' services, and the fact that contraceptive services are getting trickier to obtain with funding cuts and Boots charging an arm and a leg for MAP. Etc etc.

Topher you say you don't judge women for having abortions but by protesting outside a clinic you are doing exactly that.

hamptonhangingpork

Apologies I was unaware that there was no right to the freedom of speech in the UK. Haven’t kept up to date with English law since leaving.

Secondly when I went for my termination I kinda wished there was a protester outside. Perhaps that would have stopped me making that mistake.

Kursk - okay, so the protesters are undertaking an altruistic information service in your view.

However, turn your experience on its head:

Let's say during your visit there were protesters. They gave you their biblical propaganda and lovebombing techniques and you decided to go ahead with the pregnancy.

As soon as the baby arrives you're on your own, there may be a few parcels sent your way but you have a child. How do you know that all your fears which led to you visiting the clinic in the first place wouldn't manifest afterall? We're you really there because it was the easiest choice? I'm going to guess each step was a trial, no.

Contrary to what fundamentalists believe, women are not at these clinics for shits and giggles. You mention your abortion was a mistake?

Was it due to the lack of support you were going to receive? Then why don't protesters fight for better provisions for women? Why don't they fight for fairness in child support?

Because they are lazy and little different to bigots who cry "free speech" as they scream the n-word at people of colour.

They are desperate to feel superior and to judge.

It was a mistake, the decision was a trial at every step but I wish they had made the process more difficult. Prehaps they would have stopped me

Or perhaps not.

I do not minimise your experience, it will be a devastating one for each individual involved.

However, the protesters don't actually care about you or any of the women. If they did, they would be agitating for better pre natal medical and mental health support. They would be protesting outside parliament or their MP's offices. The places where change can be orchestrated more effectively.

Asides from being inappropriate and harrasing, how awful must it be to take the trip to the clinic when you're a rape / incest victim. Or that the pregnancy will kill you. Or in an associate's case: the fetus was dead but the clinic was the only place where she could get it removed safely by specialists.

How is that fair on all the others making that journey?

Kursk, upsetting though your personal situation must have been, that doesn't detract from the right of women to access a legal service without harassment. Some, like you, will regret their decision. Most won't. But for every woman, it is her choice to make.

As for Topher - your very presence at these clinic protests is intimidating and indefensible, and has no purpose other than to distress women. Disgusting.

A "peaceful protest" directed towards women using the clinic is in itself intimidating and bullying. The purpose of the "peaceful protest" is to harass/bully women using the clinic into not using it. That's not something that should be protected under the guise of freedom of speech.

Adult decisions mean taking responsibility. I doubt any woman chooses abortion lightly. No one is forced to step into the clinic.

The evil religious lot outside the clinic are not the people who would have given you counselling. Or any support at all with the baby.

This is bloody great news and about time too. Great move by Amber Rudd, i have total respect for her doing this.

People who object to abortion should have their ‘protest’ outside Parliament. (Noting: in my experience it’s very often not ‘just’ protesting which is bad enough when accessing healthcare at sensitive time- it’s filming women and girls and their families to intimidate them by removing their privacy, it’s following girls and women, its harassing girls and women in multiple ways...)

One thing i notice is that for all Labour’s self-portrayal as progressive and non-sexist, Labour as a party has done literally fuck all to shore up or support the pro choice position.

This is so galling, particularly around women from NI seeking a funded safe legal abortion in NI. No help for them or to shore up access to abortion in the mainland of Britain even when Labour had a huge majority after ‘97, and later in the Labour term during and after numerous Tory-led attacks on the abortion time limit. By that time there was no way Labour could pretend that they didn’t know that women’s rights were being threatened.

The fact that Rudd brings this at a time when the Tories are hanging on by their fingernails -may or may not be a coincidence- but regardless it absolutely marks her personally as a proper grown up politician in my book. Well done her.

Obviously there are good politicians of conscience (as well as misogynistic arseholes of both sexes) in all parties but- the world being what it is- Amber Rudd would have got no more criticism than anyone else if she had just kept to the norm and done fuck all to help.