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Another shooting in America

171 replies

jofeb04 · 16/04/2007 20:54

more information here

OP posts:
ruty · 17/04/2007 17:15

yes the violence easily accessible and aimed specifically at the teen market [including 'torture porn' flicks like Saw and The Hostel] is worring psychologists at the moment. That and the real violence accessible on the web [beheading of hostages etc]. Combined with easy access to guns there are obviously going to be serious consequences.

Ivor · 17/04/2007 17:17

I agree Jabberwocky, it's not the gun culture but the inability to address situations without resorting to violence.

MKG · 17/04/2007 17:28

It's not the right to own a gun, that possess a gun that is the problem. The problem is that the laws in each state are different. In Virginia a person does not need a permit/license to purchase a gun, just to carry it around.

ruty · 17/04/2007 17:33

that's bonkers. when you are buying it without a license, do you just say, 'yeah it's for my friend'?

jabberwocky · 17/04/2007 17:44

And with addressing the gun culture comes years, decades, generations before real change can be seen

MKG · 17/04/2007 17:49

jabberwocky is right about that.

I think that the older generations have to die before any real change will be seen. The younger generations that have seen tragedies like this will be able to make changes, that the older generations have been unwilling to make.

Unfortunately the gun lobby is one of the most powerful in Washington, so it's possible that no change will ever be made.

Califrau · 17/04/2007 17:50

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jabberwocky · 17/04/2007 18:00

That really surprises me. Aren't you in San Fran, Califrau?

Califrau · 17/04/2007 18:03

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ruty · 17/04/2007 18:25

the gunman was South Korean in origin, lived in virginia since 1992 and was studying English Lit.

sunchowder · 17/04/2007 18:36

Well, we don't have any guns at the Sunchowder residence, I have never shot one and don't plan on ever shooting one in my lifetime if I can help it.

jabberwocky · 17/04/2007 18:37

Califrau, you're in one of the most liberal areas of the US (but of course, you knew that). It does not bode well for changing attitudes if that is what prevails in your area.

Califrau · 17/04/2007 19:17

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Califrau · 17/04/2007 19:17

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aviatrix · 17/04/2007 20:05

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sauce · 17/04/2007 20:52

When getting dc ready for bed this evening, I saw one of the neighborhood cats shitting & spraying away on my newly planted lawn & apple tree. I opened ds' window & shrieked, barked, etc to no avail. I was SO ANGRY that had I a gun to hand, I swear I would have shot that damned cat to pieces with great pleasure. Okay, maybe I'm a stressed out maniacal mum with too little sleep & not enough fun/food/sex/etc but if my fury was anything to go by, imagine someone pushed a little more out of their sanity... faced with abusive partner, neighbor from hell, whatever. Scary.

expatinengland · 18/04/2007 15:24

Ivor...The gunman was a legal alien with a green card..you do NOT have to be a US citizen to own a gun..just a legal alien..he immigrated with his parents when he was 8 yrs. old and he did obtain the guns legally. In VA you are able to buy one gun a month as long as you have no felonies. (I know...this is stupid.)

I used to live in VA, but don't agree with their lax gun laws either. However, I definitely don't want Washington, D.C. and the feds to decide all the laws for all the states. Agree then with the other poster that with Bush all states would then have to go along with the death penalty. Also, some states you probably do need a gun to protect youself (Wyoming or Montana)...used to know somebody who had to shoot a grizzly once in Montana.

Ivor · 18/04/2007 15:32

You have to be a US citizen in Michigan to buy a hand gun.
Apologies for my inept knowledge.

Eleusis · 18/04/2007 16:21

This is a case of a very sick man who committed mass murder. I think it is rather rash to blame it on America's gun culture.

This man was sick. That much is clear.

If my brother, who believes very strongly in his right to bear arms, was here he would say "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." Gun triggers don't pull themselves.

Can someone explain to me what the connection is to the current President? As far as I know the right to bear arms didn't start and it won't end with George W. Bush.

When I was at Uni (in Texas) I shared a house with two other girls. We considered buying a gun for our own security. But, we liked to have parties and we ere afraid that some drunk idiot might get a hold of the gun one night and do something stupid. So, we decided not to get one.

Ivor · 18/04/2007 16:30

People just hate George and seem to blame him for everything that goes wrong, don't get me wrong I'm not his No 1 fan.
As I recall no one ever suggested that Columbine was clinton's fault.

WendyWeber · 18/04/2007 16:41

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

GOD THAT SLOGAN MAKES ME SO MAD!!!!!!

If he hadn't had guns he couldn't have killed 32 people like that, could he?

CoteDAzur · 18/04/2007 16:43

Re "Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

That is like saying "poison doesn't kill people, people kill people".

Eleusis · 18/04/2007 16:45

Yes, I suppose the statement applies to poison as well -- at least when it intentionally given to other with the intent of killing them.

WendyWeber · 18/04/2007 16:50

It applies to knives too but it would be fairly difficult to kill 30 people unhindered with a couple of knives.

I'm sorry to say this about your brother Eleusis, but that NRA slogan is used mindlessly by people who lack the reasoning power to go to the next step.

DominiConnor · 18/04/2007 16:55

I'm not sure one can put it down entirely to US "gun culture". Even though guns are pretty easy to get hold of, many more Americans are killed with knives than most other countries. I recall one statistic that far more Americans are murdered by chairs alone, than every type of murder put together in the UK.
And although Ivor may be correct that in Michigan you need to be a US citizen to buy a handgun, one must of course add the word "legally", since there are far more guns than people in the USA.
Gun ownership by itself isn't a great predictor of whether a country has a lot of murders.
At one extreme is Switzerland where every adult male citizen is required by law to keep military grade hardware in his home. Yet their use in crime is quite rare. It's neighbour Germany has pretty tight gun control yet more gun crime.
Ironically, the American idea of a "citizen militia" does seem to reduce gun crime. Where gun possession is actually part of a structured defence process, they are less often used from crime. Armed Israelis don't kill each other much. The USA has had conscription, but that's not the same thing at all. Almost all gun crime is by people who have had no formal training with them.

What no politician in America on either side of the debate is prepared to say, is that Americans like killing other Americans, but once you've grasped that, then gun control itself is not the core issue.

The death penalty can thus be seen not as a deterrent (because it isn't), or a form of justice (unless you're executing a black man), but as part of this apparent "wish" to kill each other.

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