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Original poster

Babies to be delivered by midwives assistants. Capable and willing, I'm sure - but with very little training.

43 replies

Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 20:51

I don't trust Hewitt and I was dubious about her recent announcement that women will be truly able to choose a home delivery every time,if they so wish, by 2009.

Now, it seems that there are moves to recruit more midwives assistants. This is certainly happening at my local hospital and I'm wondering whether this is how the govt plans to replace the midwifery posts NHS trusts have had to cut due to funding shortfalls.

This is according to The Mail, so I'm taking it with a pinch, and all that.

Local beat police officers have been replaced by CSO's who, while willing and able, do not have the same powers as 'proper' police officers, to free up the police to complete the increasing amounts of paperwork demanded by the Home Office.

Isn't this just more of the same thing?

OP posts:
SherlockLGJ · 04/04/2007 20:53

I can not post what I am thinking, because it would be ok over a pizza with a few of the pizza posse there. But would not read correctly on here.

MarsLady · 04/04/2007 20:55

Yup my bubbly one... more of the same.

You see whilst Tone is producing those big banners to get us all cheering that every woman will have her choice of birth the man is ripping choice away from us. Independent Midwives will become criminals in a few months as they are unable to get insurance and it will be illegal for them to work without it (you can't get what isn't there!). MWs are overstretched, newly qualified ones can't get work... but don't worry.... Tone will provide MW assistants! They don't need assistants!!!!!!!!! They need the space to do their jobs and not be obstetric nurses!

Ooh I feel a rant coming on!

Original poster
Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 20:55

Actually, I say the trusts have 'had to' cut midwifery posts, but TBH I have seen so much wastage in the system that I'm sure the funds are being wasted on pointless management posts.

When I went into hospital to have DS4 last October, four (count em') four 'suits' came to the ward to do a 'mattress audit.'

Not enough midwives but four clipboard wielders.

It's all wrong.

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foxinsocks · 04/04/2007 20:57

They like using the word choice don't they.

No doubt they mean 'choose' just like we can 'choose' the schools our children go to

Original poster
Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 20:58

Marsy. Check out my profile pics.

And now I've just hijacked my own thread.

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mummytosteven · 04/04/2007 20:58

I agree. I feel that recent moves are purely financially driven and would not feel comfortable with use of midwifery assistants.

MarsLady · 04/04/2007 21:01

I don't want to check your profile pics! I want my own pic thank you very much.

I've seen your profile pics! If you're not giving me Footle to raise as my own the very least you can do is email me my own pic! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Sigh...............

lulumama · 04/04/2007 21:03

what mars said.....

just so shocking ( why am i shocked at politicians,putting vote winning spin on things.../..)

so, in our area . where home birth rate is less than 1 % , where there is no birth centre or midwifery led unit ( closed after a short time......not enough users......) . we will suddenly all be encourage to go for home birth or midwifery led care.....

i am doulaing a lady booked for home birth in May...she has been told off by a midwife , that if she goes into labour after 5pm, she will be disturbing a midwife who has finished for the day..

so many things need to change

more midwives, so the midwives within the progession can do their job, ie be 'with woman'.. a real choice of where to give birth, that is supported across the board, and no guilt trips for daring to ask for anything other than a hospital birth

there is a looooooong way to go...

mummytosteven · 04/04/2007 21:04

lulu/mars - do you think with the recent "approval" of homebirths that the pendulum could swing the other way, and that women could be pressured into homebirths in future?

Original poster
Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 21:04

Midwives used to deliver babies under the ultimate supervision of obstetric consultants. The consultants were rarely needed as, in straightforward pregnancies and deliveries, midwives were trained and experienced enough to be the only person needed.

What will happen now, I suspect, is that MW assistants will be expected to deliver babies with the MW's replacing the consultants as advisors.

All fine and dandy until something begins to go wrong during a delivery and there isn't a MW on hand to be able to recognise the signs.

NHS saves on salaries = more mothers and babies die.

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Original poster
Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 21:07

Marsy. You drive a hard bargain.

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MarsLady · 04/04/2007 21:07

I don't think women would ever be pressurised into a homebirth. Though of course if targets have to be met (oh but this a government for targets) then it would become a possibility.

Personally I think that they would much rather keep women under the control of the hospital. What you need to remember MtS (haven't seen you about for a while.... how you doing?) is that homebirths used to be the norm until doctors got involved.

lulumama · 04/04/2007 21:10

mummytosteven...based on the women i know who have had home births, i think it will take a massive amount of time before home birth is even considered normal, never mind becomes the default option

although if i had another , i would go for a home birth without a shadow of a doubt, and i imagine i would have a fight on my hands due to previous c.s

i think that women are not given enough credit for being able to make an informed choice ,that they know the risks, and are prepared to run with them, that the consult knows best, regardless of whether that rides roughshod over a mothers; deepest needs

birth affects women in so many ways,on so many levels, and yet we are all potentially being stuffed into the same box, without being given a real choice

lulumama · 04/04/2007 21:10

should say, homebirth is normal again !

Original poster
Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 21:12

What were the stats for infant mortality in the times when homebirth was 'the norm?'

I'm wondering whether the increase in hospital deliveries was as a direct result of undiagnosed complications during home-births.

Mind you, the 'safe' option of hospital delivery is only as safe as the staff attending it. As I have, sadly, discovered.

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MarsLady · 04/04/2007 21:14

Remember as well that our diet has improved (well some may argue) and actually I'm not convinced that the statistics of neonatal deaths have decreased since hospital births. Again something you my bubbly one know first hand.

Original poster
Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 21:18

You're welcome to The Footle this evening....

He's just found out how to get out of his cot and has been charging around upstairs for most of this evening.

Time for a babygate on his room, I think.

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Original poster
Bubble99 · 04/04/2007 21:20

There's also ultrasound, which has made a massive difference to ante-natal care.

With US and consistent ante-natal care I can see no reason why homebirth should not be the norm for uncomplicated PGs.

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MarsLady · 04/04/2007 21:21
lulumama · 04/04/2007 21:22

i genuinely believe that a lot of women end up with complications, because they are in hospital, under obstetric care....

i know that you have sadly experienced first hand , the terrible consequences of lack of care...

i read the naomi wolf book, 'misconceptions' a while ago, and it just struck a chord with me..the medicalisation of birth, to the point that pregnancy and birth is no longer a normal part of a womans' 'wellness cycle' , but an event to be managed, timed and intervened in...

t

chocolateface · 04/04/2007 21:26

I thought people were first encouraged to go to hostpital to give birth to get mothers away from unsanitary conditions and over crowding at home.
Things have certainly changed now - my own home is far cleaner the any maternity ward I've been on.
I wouldn't let midwife assistant anywhere near me! DH could probably do a better job!

Eleusis · 05/04/2007 08:34

Bubble... those boys are sooooooooooo cute!!

As for MW assistants delivering the baby... over my DEAD body (which is more likely of course with an untrained person in charge of delivery). Of course, I don't plan to have any more kids. But, if I did, I would regard this as one more reason to demand a section. At least I would get the undivided attention of a doctor in the room that way.

This is nothing but a cost saving exercise at the expense of quality medical care.

Snaf · 05/04/2007 08:54

Never fear, ladies - many of the midwifery assistants may well be fully-trained, newly-qualified midwives whose trusts aren't offering midwifery jobs on qualification...

I am with LGJ on this. I cannot say how I really feel for fear of compromising my professionalism [wry smile]. Suffice to say I am off to a Radical Midwives meeting tonight in London where plots will be hatched

yomellamoHelly · 05/04/2007 08:58

Can't quite believe it and think it's really quite dangerous. Dh was present at both my births, so has a certain amount of experience but wouldn't ever rely on him to deliver one. Feel the same about an "assistant". Ds2 had his cord wrapped around his neck. Fortunately the midwife dealt with it so fast that dh said he almost didn't spot it. It's in that kind of situation where you're really glad someone with loads of knowledge and experience is coaching you through it. It seems to me with childbirth that circumstances can change very quickly and that's when you need all the training they get.

BizzyDint · 05/04/2007 09:04

from what i've read and heard on the radio, the midwife assistants will be the ones that are there during the labour, thus freeing up the fully qualified midwives for the actual births. so all mums would have one to one through out labour and birth. compare than to how it is now, where you have a harrassed midwife popping in and out, leaving you alone with your birth partner until the urge to push comes along. then hopefully she's with you from that point on.

i actually would have been perfectly happy with an assistant during labour, from start to finish. then the midwife coming in for the birth. but then mine was uncomplicated, no monitoring. so i do think in my case it would have been fine. i was in the water so had little intrusion.

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