Yet another article re: why mothers should return to work

[boogiewoogie]

Just snatching a couple of minutes during a coffee break, will come back. What do you think of this?

obscure is great, fantastic even, but of what value is a study of norweigen puppets to the good of society? if its self funded then its ok but if public money is being used, i feel it could be better spent. Of course, cristina you could be right, the answer to the worlds woes could lie with the puppets, just make tony blair and the iranians slug it out with punch and judy

Norwegian puppetry, or English literature, or philosophy, are good for society. Surely you are not saying everyone should only study accountancy and cabinet making?

oranges - I don't think that you have given particularly useful illustrations, but I think that your general point is that a very wide variety of topics can be of interest to society. They can. But there are also topics that are just silly and self-indulgent. Not everything is worthwhile.

To think I used to believe that a PhD was the sign of an advanced scholar. It appears to be an optional hobby these days although I suppose it was always done for the personal gratification of the individual rather than the ultimate outcome of the research work.

I rarely need to use spellcheck and I can add up pretty well but I never considered myself PhD material, how things have changed in the world of higher education

No, you are absolutely right. I'm bowing out now to go and do my worthless hobby. I'm sure your day will be much more constructive.

if there is a lesson to be learnt, great, fantastic, wonderful, who am i to question, however, when i see academics struggling to secure funding for medical research, it does frustrate me a little. i now wish i never mentioned puppets at all

grrr - how very true, i coudlnt agree more, after all, they gave me one.

Grrr - I agree.

lucyellensmum - don't worry, I know what you meant and you are quite right.

And I always feel very cross when I see SAHPs living off their other halves like children, not pulling their weight or contributing to family life in a meaningful way. And I'll give another example about the particular group I was posting about - they are all American married to Frenchmen living in France but they are not doing their utmost to bring their children up bilingual. Makes me SO cross - because early bilingualism is so easy in their children's circumstances (but requires a little effort on the mother's part).

No aggravation, Anna, don't worry. And I'd much rather not re-read your misanthropic rantings again.

So, tell me about these American women. Are they not talking to their children in English? Have they gone to the trouble of learning French and speaking to them in French? What do you disapprove of this time?

Lucyellensmum - I am a medical academic, also working on a PhD at the moment. If I tell you what it is, though, you might also think this is self-indulgent. I can assure you that unfortunately it won't lead to immediate, measurable benefits for mankind, but may contribute something to the knowledge pool about eye disease.

And LOL at puppetry used as a metaphor for solving diplomatic disputes. There's creativity and imagination for you, I like that.

Mostly they speak Franglais. So their children speak French (which they learn with their father and at school) and really bad Franglais, a mixture of what their mother speaks and their Filipina nanny's crap English. Appalling negligence.

a phd in "norweigen puppetry" - i would think that was quite useful if you were setting up a business in norwegian puppets, or even just using norwegian puppets, no ?

you wouldn't need a phd to do it, but it would be useful.

so i don't agree that a degree or any sort of higher degree or qualification HAS to lead to paid employment or be useful in other people's view.

some people do masters and phd because they simply have a specialist interest - i would like to do a phd NOW but think it would be silly of me because it would take up as much if not more time than working full time and i would have to stick ds into some kind of childcare which is what i have tried to avoid all along

cristina, tell me what it is, i did a similar thing, how far into yours are you?

I have a PhD and I'm currently applying for funding for another. Now what does that make me??

So many "different planet to my life" posts on this thread I couldn't begin to respond.....

yr - that was my only point - I think it's wrong to put your child in childcare to pursue a Phd that is only for your personal interest and expect your husband to foot the bill.

See, in an ideal world if all jobs had the same salary, I wouldn't do what I do now.

I am however practical and although I don't sell my soul completely as far as what I could earn, I do earn about 3 times what my fantasy job would bring in.

I just don't think it would be fair to put additional pressure on my dh to be the serious breadwinner, as it is we are just about equal if you adjust for the fact that my salary is reduced for less than full time hours.

Dh is always stressed over his job but likes the status attached and earning capacity it gives him which he would lose if he jacked it all in to retrain in something less stressful. I think indulging myself in stepping off the ratrace treadmill would be very shortsighted because if the pressure really did get too much for him we'd have blown the family earning capacity totally. I know life's too short yada yada.... But I can indulge myself in a bit of my fantasy work as a hobby, that's the sensible thing to do, I suppose.

i very much doubt that even very liberal norwegian society would agree to fund puppetry research - most academic institutions have very strict criterea - they may allow idiot subjects - but they won't fund it

i would think he/she would have to self-fund that one [smiel]

Grrrr - you sound eminently sensible and fair to your husband

As a SAHM (but with quite a lot behind me, both experience and financially) I get very annoyed by self-indulgent SAHMs who give the rest of a us a bad name.

i hardly see looking after children as self indulgant!!!

Anna - but how do you know it's only for your personal interest? Who exactly funds these PhDs that are purely for personal interest? All the ones I know about have to go through very tight controls before being approved, they have to show that they might bring some good. I think it comes back again to paid childcare, which is the thing you have such a huge problem with, Anna. BTW, are you sure the children don't speak Franguese, I thought the nannies were from the Brazilian jungle in your earlier posts? Keep up.

On the topic of bilingual education, well you're just plainly wrong. A child speaking Franglais is not necessarilly a neglected child. My DD hears English from my DH and nursery and Romanian from me (apart from the 10 hours a week I work). She is not fluent in Romanian. She isn't neglected either. I think you just want reasons to despise women and find them wherever you look.

Lucyellensmum - I should be finishing this Spring, but we'll see about that...

excuse my spelling, i need spell check

Cristina - I know a lot about bilingualism (and multilingualism) and the advantages it confers on children. Mothers who do not work outside the home and who are too damn lazy to spend time with and speak properly to their children are doing them a huge disservice.

American women here like Filipina maids precisely because they speak (a sort of) English, because their French is generally not very good (the other main sources of childcare are French-speaking North Africans. The Bolivians I referred to earlier were in Spain. Read the posts properly.

God no, looking after children is far less self-indulgant than sitting in an office to earn a salary.

What would be self-indulgant would be taking part of the "at home" time of being a SAHP to do something like a PhD in norwegian puppetry just because it interests me and expecting dh not to mind that I put the children in nursery to free me up to do so.

Grrr - I think that working to earn a salary and looking after children are equally valuable contributions to family life.