Yet another article re: why mothers should return to work

[boogiewoogie]

Just snatching a couple of minutes during a coffee break, will come back. What do you think of this?

yellowrose - doing a PhD is also a personal way of occupying your brain ie you are not pulled by the structure of the workplace but have to push yourself to structure your own thoughts. In fact, I think that academia is quite a good preparation for being a SAHM - the intellectually inclined seem, in my experience, to have a richer "interior landscape" to fall back on when they are not occupied by external forces.

I had lunch a week ago with a group of SAHMs of the type you describe - full-time nanny, cleaner, spend their lives lunching and shopping. They looked in disapproval/horror when I showed up at the lunch with my daughter in tow (having travelled to get there - shock horror - on public transport). I was SO bored with their conversation about shopping and their silly faux-jobs (artist, jewellery designer)... not my scene.

yellowrose - doing a PhD is also a personal way of occupying your brain ie you are not pulled by the structure of the workplace but have to push yourself to structure your own thoughts. In fact, I think that academia is quite a good preparation for being a SAHM - the intellectually inclined seem, in my experience, to have a richer "interior landscape" to fall back on when they are not occupied by external forces.

I had lunch a week ago with a group of SAHMs of the type you describe - full-time nanny, cleaner, spend their lives lunching and shopping. They looked in disapproval/horror when I showed up at the lunch with my daughter in tow (having travelled to get there - shock horror - on public transport). I was SO bored with their conversation about shopping and their silly faux-jobs (artist, jewellery designer)... not my scene.

Read such a funny interview with Stephen Merchant (whom I am convinced is Ricky Gervaise's entire sense of humour) saying that with so much pottering to be done, who has time for adventures, and I felt a warm glow towards a kindred spirit.

procrast - were you a Marxian rebel in your youth like me then ? I didn't say "Marxist" as I am sure you will appreciate the difference

yes, I agree with aloha. You're still in work mode scummy - it's a completely different thing when you take a decision to be at home. You can then actively plan to do things to fill the time.

why are artists and jewellery designer 'silly faux jobs'? They sound fun.

Does anyone know the proportion of women who stay at home full time once the kids are at school though?

All the women I know who have school age children work in some capacity, (I am including unpaid voluntary work in this).

I work from home btw, and know that if I wasn't nominally working - ie making coffee and procrastinating, I'd be doing something else, even ironing while listening to radio 4 or going to the art shop to get a painting framed. Now, I really must make a phone call to write a blooming feature! I think I find home stuff quite satisfying and interesting tbh. I do like a little break from the kids now and again though!

And yes, hardly anyone stops work and never goes back. The way people talk about 'giving up work' being stupid tends to imply they never go back, but women go back all the time.

Well I do like all the pottering, at least in the moment. It is when I look back over the day or the week that I feel dismayed at having done nothing much with my time.

I have a good compromise - I have Friday's at home - where I can potter, catch up a bit with friends, do the odd bit of urgent work and do school runs etc. A little bit is good for me - too much really isn't.

YR - I was the boss of the yellow blokes - lol.

I was (still am a bit - always preffered early marx) but my sis works fulltime for the revolution as SWP organiser - personally i find it a bit like I have lost her to a cult - but it is good to know people still want to save the world!

puddle - quite - very few do absolutely NOTHING all day - IMO voluntary work is an excellent way to work your way back into paid work

I would imagine feeling very isolated too being at home when most of my friends are working. It's different when your children are pre-school and there's a big network of people to see/ activities based around your children. I always needed some adult company in the daytime!

That's true, Aloha. I feel like I'm in limboland a bit. Perhaps I'd think of something more useful/fulfilling to do if I didn't know I was waiting to start this job. But I still think I need a "purpose" to feel really happy. And I can see looking after my babies as a purpose, or working at a job I like, or doing up houses. But definitely not housework.

soapbox - I don't know where to begin... I think about everything that happens to me and the people around me and why it happens and how it fits into the cultural and historical context of life. I think about different cultural, political and economic systems and how they force people into leading their lives a certain way. I think about what I know and how I can impart what I have learnt about the world to my children and partner (and then I try to do it... more difficult, lots of trial and error). I'm quite into pedagogy and think about approaches I might try when I return to work. And I think about my partner's work issues sometimes, when he needs a hand (not often), and about how we should be investing (our money, time and energy) for the future. I try to be fully conscious of everything that happens to me and my family. I talk to my parents and sister really often (they live in different countries), often for several hours, because they are intellectually stimulating people to talk to... and to some friends as well, the clever thinking ones. I think about what I want next and how to negotiate that for myself (I think quite a lot about negotiation techniques, again partly for personal and partly for professional reasons).

That's just what comes to mind right now, but there are masses of other topics.

soapy i think your life sounds ideal, but although we now have the rigth to ask for these things, the actuality of these jobs is not common.
howver, i think we need to remember that it wasn't that long ago, that it was normal for ft work to be 6 days a week, not 5, so even harder to have 2 working parents. the problem is that industry needs us all to work as much as possible, for as little as possible, but our personal & family needs don't match this. any decisions we make are a compromise in trying to reach the opposing needs of industry v family

oranges - they are hobbies for these women ie they cost them both time and money. But they pretend they are serious careers. Not honest, rather silly in my opinion. If it's a hobby, fine, admit it.

I read this yesterday and didn't read it as criticising SAHM the article is only saying that many people make the decision without thinking about the longterm consequences.

I work part time now and have been very lucky to be able to combine work and motherhood all the way through since ds1(13)was born.I have had two career breaks and have never worked full time but it has been a little bit of a juggling act at times.My parents divorces when I was 11 and my mother did support us but she had to go abroad to do it,so i did think about the consequences if the worst happened although after 17 years we are blissfully happy so I don't think about it much!A more motivating factor for me was that I wanted to have the choice of private education for them and knew that the only way to do this was to keep my career going albeit ata lower level than dh,so i did work at a loss for the first few years.Also i wanted to make sure that after they had left home I still had something for me as I had seen dh's mother wrestle with empty nest syndrome.

I do think that women should be encouraged to think about the consequences I definately earn less know than I could have done by letting my career go full pelt but thats fine because thats the choice I made to spend more time with my boys and also to have a third child.

I do know a number of women who have been left high and dry by circumstances but also more who are now at home with teenagers at school and feeling worried about the future when their children leave home.I am sure that they don't regret spending time at home but quite a few have said that they wished they had thought harder at the time about the long term consequences. and i don't think that is anything to be ashamed of ,isn't it what we are all learning as the first full generation who have had these dilemmas and choices and this is the only way future women will avoid some of the mistakes we have made.

YR my last post made little sense (again) - bit tired due to teething baby and puking toddler last night - I meant I was boss of bearded not yellow blokes - though their skin was often sallow through too much time in offices drawing up transport schemes!

I feel much more job satisfaction at the moment as I have two very challenging individuals to manage and help develop - when they don't need me so intensly I think a period of adjustment and a new plan for me will be needed but I will deal with that when I need to.

Yes I know I am very lucky - really because seniority/nicheness brings with it the opportunity to negotiate terms which are favourable to ones own situation.

It is vital also to recognise the contribution of the other parent - I can only do this job because we share almost everything to do with the home and children equally. He knows which days are sports days, how to do DD's hair, when the next school concert will be etc etc. He also has a very demanding job, but we muddle through.

There are rafts of working parents who have very little flexibility in their working lives and/or the financial means to put in place support systems to allieviate the stress of working full time OTH.

I do say it over and over and over again, but to me feminism is all about having the opportunity whether to WOTH/SAHM or any combination of those. It is about the ability to choose. Sadly there are too many people who want to work OTH but can't (childcare costs and getting back into the workplace after a career break) and many that want to SAH but have to work. Those of us who have really been able to exercise a completely free choice are lucky, whatever choice that is

soapbox - apart from being on mn you mean ? lol ! i enjoy reading (always read at least an hour or so before sleeping and if I wake in the middle of the night, I am an insomniac, sometimes can't sleep so end up reading at 3 am until I fall asleep again around 5 am). Insomnia has it's advantages !

procrast - i am so glad you didn't say green blokes with big slit eyes as i would REALLY have worried !

My brother is an artist and a sahd - it is not a silly faux job but a very poorly paid one so it is his partner who works as a civil engineer who keeps the family finacially. The children benefit from a creative interesting parent at home for them - they have no tv and live on an island and have a brill life on the whole... imo

YR I think MN actually serves a very valid function on teh thinking side of SAH and WOTH lives! On which note - I really do need to get some work done