Yet another article re: why mothers should return to work

[boogiewoogie]

Just snatching a couple of minutes during a coffee break, will come back. What do you think of this?

cheeky i know but i'm wondering who funds the french/english lifestyle of shopping, musuems, lots of international travel etc?

Sorry but the only way we can afford a car/travel to get to visit DS GP's, or to have holidays abroad is if both me and DH work. And we still can't afford to live in Paris or London! Of course the alternative could be that DH worked all the hours god gives in two jobs and I was a f/t SAHM. Not sure how this would benefit DS though?

NK - couples are coerced into both working because of high taxation, among other things. The more services we offer the population, the higher taxes are. So the greater the chance you will be handing over your cash to the government to spend it on your behalf - on providing a nursery so you can work, for example.

I like low tax economies, personally, where I get to choose how I spend my hard-earned money. One of the reasons I don't marry is because I get to keep 80% of my income that way (I have an income, from former work) whereas if I married I would keep 30%.

I don't use a nursery. So I therefore don't make sweeping remarks about how terrible they are - I know some nurseries are better than others - but I don't have personal experience of them, so I'm not qualified to discuss them.

When mothers who DO use nurseries tell me their children are happy, confident and settled there, I kinda think they might know what they're talking about - especially if I see a happy, confident, settled child with them (which I often do).

However, I have been a SAHM and it nearly killed me. So I can talk about how terrible that can be for some women from experience. And I would hate for anyone to feel guilty for working and raising happy children. That would just be shite.

SJ - I worked for many years before having children so I have (a) capital (houses) and (b) a small income of my own from royalties.

My partner pays for day to day expenses like food and bills, but I do lots of work in the home which we would have to pay someone else to do if I worked, so that doesn't cause me any problems.

god DS would kill me if i never took him to childrens centres! he is 2 FGS not 22! he doesn't like museums where he can't touch anything, he likes those god awful chidrens palces were they have slides and climbing frames and ballpits etc!

Anna, your lifestyle sounds too 'good' too 'yummymummy' to be true, do you honestly say that you NEVER watch TV with your DD? that you travel all over europe and have loads of friends with enough room to put you up, that the GP's (who obviuosly dont' work) can take your DD for holidays. That you spend your days taking a 2 yr old to french museums, browsing quaint little french shops, getting free fruit in the markets and running in parks?

wow- i thought that was a book not reality, who does the washing up?

We have a dishwasher which my partner loads and I unload.

Anna - I thought nurseries were usually provided by the private sector. Nothing to do with taxes at all.

And no, NEVER watch TV. I used to watch a fascinating programme called Les Maternelles in the morning sometimes which gave me some great insights into how the French think about raising children, but I've given that up - got bored after a month or so.

Children do have this distressing tendency to be childish, I find

In lots of countries nurseries are state-funded, state subsidised etc. This makes them "cheaper".

French TV is particularly awful though isn't it? It certainly used to be.

anna- you are aware though surely of SAHM who do nothing more than trapse round the local shopping centre all day then trudge back to their flat with no garden, stick the telly on and give the kid some crisps??! of course tha fabby lifstyle you're describing is great, but it's not what a lot of people do. in the same way that a lot of nurseries are not as you have described.

i work evenings so get to do all the nice day time things with dd and still keep my hand in at work until she's older and i go back on more hours and keep on up the career ladder. she also has grandparents in france, we'll be going there for a week next month. so yes, she'll get the ooh la la french bit too, la di da... she also has great grandparents in morocco, so she'll get that too. none of that has anything to do with me staying at home or going out to work though does it?!

Anna, my children do all the things you have listed, and I work full time. They do many of them with the nanny, and the rest with me and DH on the weekend.

Oh, but we do go to tacky theme parks. I hate them but DD and DS love them. So we go.

You do seems to have a bitof a superiority complex. If you enjoy staying home, that's great (for you). But, why the bitterness towards others? Why insult the children in childcare.

French TV is bobbins though.

I haven't insulted the children in childcare, I just think it's not necessarily a better childhood than being at home. I feel constantly insulted on this thread and others for being a SAHM (who must therefore be doing nothing with her life) and I am trying to show that being a SAHM can be very full life, for mother and child.

Well I think referring to them as being "shut up" in a nursery is insulting.

There are some fab nurseries around. There are some crap SAHP. And vice versa of course.

Anna I'm sorry you don't have a nursery local to you that are like the nurseries I have local to me.
It's great you can offer your DD the life she has and that you are happy with that before she starts school.
However not all children are shut up all day in horrid little rooms!
My DD's nursery was down a country lane and we drove past pigs and sheep every morning. They went out every day, weather permitting. They walked toparks, the farm in teh opposite fields, went on trips. They did PE with acompany employued to come in and teach them things especially, they learnt French again with a teacher bought in especially, had music lessons with a trained music teacher. My DD who has SN's came out fit, happy and healthy, could count to 20, know all her days of the week and month, knew loads of French words and everyone saw a huge improvment in her in some many ways. She has mnade firm friends with a few of the other children there.

She also knows her local town and we also take her to museums (a lot), go to restaurants with her, take her swimming, to little theatre shows locally, take her on the tube, to parks and 2 lovely local farms as well as the odd safari park or theme park now and then.

She has a full and varied life and that included her nursery.

So I'm sorry your local nurseries made you feel like crying, They are really not all like that. Mine made me cry but with happiness and when she had to leave!

But what if you are a sahm mother who lolls around not doing that much with the kids all day? That isn't so awful either. I think there are lots of different ways of being a good parent. And some are the busy art crafty types, others kick footballs, others can watch a TV programme that the child happens to find fascinating. Some home bake, some go to theme parks etc....

Of course negligence exists. And so does downright cruelty. But most of us are okay in our own individual way.

you have insulted children in childcare - you called them institutionalised, made references to them being "shut in", less verbal, less fertile imaginations etc etc ... how is that not insulting? And FWIW i have not made one single negative comment about SAHMs in this whole debate - sorry you feel insulted but i think you have been very insuting on this thread and utterly unapolagetic about it

By the way, I thought the article this thread was started to talk about was very positive nad refreshing. I can see that some SAHM found it insulting. But, I think the things I'm used to reading about working mums are far more insulting.

oh and PS - my DD doesn't have the TV on unless I need to keep her happy for 20 minutes while I prepare dinner and nothing else will do. I have found that some of the TV programees are great. She loves Boogie Beebies anbd dances round the room joining in when it is on. I can't see the harm in that if it makes her dance, copy and laugh while I make dinner of hang the washing out etc.

Eleusis - I thought it was refreshing too.

I don't think people insult SAHPs on here. I think everyone has their own unique situation - some mothers prefer to be WOHM, some prefer to be SAHM and some have absolutely no choice whatsoever and have to make do with the situation they find themselves in.

I imagine any sort of discussion is always most poignant for those who have no choice.