Very interesting article for anyone with a DS

[StickyNote]

\linknews.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3871545.stm{}

oh WHY can't I do links???

here

Thank you

ha! Must have cracked it, my ds aged 10 is as soft as marshmallow bless him
Some children are born with definite personalities though its not always as simple as nurturing the traits out...

um I'm sorry but that article reads as if its the way that boys are treated that makes them more likely to develop "autism, AS and disruptve behaviur". Someone needs to tell the BBC that Bettleheim was a fake and the refrigerator mothers went out in the 60's.

and also implies that if you don't get the first few months right you've blown it!

"If you want a real man then treat your baby boy as weak not as strong and he will become strong."??!! sounds like a bad advert.

Bit short on the specifics I thought - just made me think, oh well, too late now I've probably messed that up too!

There really is no hope as a parent, you're bound to be doing SOMETHING wrong.

Agree about the 'refridgeratior' mother stuff being total rubbish.

That said, on an n of 2, I have found that ds is far more 'vulnerable' and needing support than dd. And I realise that they all differ!

I agree with Jimjams about the autistic etc implication - most careless - and who, WHO treats a baby under one month as if it was a 'lump of muscle'? They are treated as fragile newborns, aren't they?
The whole thing about communicating with boys as sensitive beings seems like commmon sense to me.

But JimJams: what do you mean "Bettleheim was a fake"??? as in Bruno Bettleheim, and the Uses of Enchantment? That has been a major and practical inspiration for me - help!

but i still here 'you aren't going to be a mummy's boy' addressed to my 8 month old (more than once!)

i think boys are treated differently and agree strongly that if anything they should be parented even more sensitively than we would girls given that they are basically the weaker sex (developmentally)...

there is still a strong attitude of toughen 'em up/don't be a cry baby/you're so strong (rather than beautiful, sweet, gentle, clever).

totally hear what you're saying re autism as environmental developmental thing jimjams (but i do love betelheim's freud and man's soul) but feel there is a valid point in what the bbc article is saying re the way we parent boys...we're so conditioned that unless we really watch ourselves i think it's v hard to help it.

argh: hear not here!

And people are always commenting on how "tough" my girl is...like girls are not usually tough? Men only go to war and try to kill each other, but women have to endure childbirth.

Bettleheim lied about his qualifications. He then spent the 60's telling people that autistic children were autistic because the mothers had failed to repond to their child's needs. The children were supposedly so traumatised by this that they shut down withdrew and became autistic (never mind that plenty of the children has perfectly NT children as well). He caused misery to many families of autistic children. heres a link that gives an overview. His name is pretty much synonymous with "evil" in the autism community.

I think its the way that its written- but it almost reads as if "your male child is fragile and will be more liukely to develop autism but you can stop that by treating them gently", Which frankly is bollocks.

I don't disagree that boys should be hugged and cuddled etc whch is lucky as I have 2 of the most cuddly boys going.

plenty of the children had perfectly NT siblings I mean.....

Thanks Jimjams. I had no idea! Had only read his work on the content/importance of fairy stories.

Warming to this theme

This is from "not even wrong adventures in autism" by Paul Collins

"After Bruno Bettleheims suicide in 1990, respectful obituries duly apeared in the newspapers..........But not everyone it soon emerged, was so enamored of the aintly doctor. By November, the paper's headlines were reading...BETTLEHEIM BECAME THE VERY EVIL HE LOATHED. 'He was a negalomaniac' the patient wrote..........Other former patients wrote of abuse, and heartborken staff ended years of silence about sham science. Bettleheims books were found to be plagarized, his data fudged. It emerged the the elusive 'doctor' had no degree at all, with the sum of his training consisiting of three psych courses. And rather than a protege handpicked by Freud Bettleheim had been something more prosaic in Venna, a lumbar salesman"

jimjams, please don't take this the wrong way as I love you, and totally agree that beteheim's work on autism is bollox...but given that we know so little about causes, isn't it possible that in some cases environmental/parental factors might be relevant...just as we don't rule anything else out, how can this be ruled out? genuine and humble question, please don't get cross...

Perhaps Dr Sebastian Kraemer would like to step out side the Whittington Hosptial and tell his theory to the two charming men sptiing and drinking and calling each other 'Penis' literally on the Hospita'sl this morning as I walked past with DS1.

Ivory Tower syndromefrom these medics most of the time I think

Sophable, it will fill my heart with hope if what you say were true, as it is easier to change parents' behaviout than biology itself

But considering the amount of love and attention many autistic children receive, I think it is not fair on the parents

Jimjams, yes, if you read stickynote's article quickly, it does imply that autism is related to "tough" parenting AT FIRST GLANCE. Got my hackles raised and I went back and read it again b/c I couldn't believe my eyes. . .

But what I think the (poorly written) article is saying is that boys ALREADY lag behind girls, from birth, in so many ways. . and in general have a greater tendancy to do poorly in school or be on the autistic spectrum. . .I think that what the researcher is saying is that given the built-in disadvantage that boys have, they should be treated more gently. I don't think there was any link made at all between tough parenting and autism. . .it was just some unfortunate phrasing.

(Believe me I, too, am angry as hell over the refrigerator mother theory and, like you, get very angry when any so-called connections are made between parenting styles and autism. But I honestly don't think this researcher has made any such connection. )

I didn't read it like that Jimjams - I thought he was just trying to point out that as a society we tend to think of males as tough and unfeeling compared to females, but men are more likely to have a major mental illness, to kill themselves etc etc and in fact, males may well be emotionally more fragile than females (possibly partly due to the fact that they are less good at developing nurturing social networks,such as Mumnsnet )
I do think even now there is a great deal of pressure to raise boys as tough, to cut them off from loving affection and hugs and kisses when they are still very young. You only have to look at the clothes available for very young boys - combat stuff, military outfits, surfy things, football outfits - all of which push a vision of tough, even violent, very physical manliness as the appropriate behaviour model for very small boys (babies and toddlers) who are in fact very emotional, vulnerable and in need of very untough love. I strongly suspect that in many homes little boys are treated differently and less gently and affectionately from day one. There have been plenty of threads on MN from women worried their boys are too 'soft' for society, and women whose partners object to their sons having nurturing toys like dolls etc. Tenderness, gentleness and a poetic nature are not prized in males in our society, and I think it is a huge shame.

Reading the article I wouldnt come to the conclusion from it that he was saying that theres a link between how you treat a 1 month old baby boy to autism. I cant imagine you treat a boy or gilr any differently at that age. I have a boy and a girl, he definately needs more help with things than she does. Jimjams dont get upset by articles like this, you read them every day and sometimes you think brilliant thats what i did and other days you think oh shit.....could this all be my fault. The message to me is just love your kids all the time.

.You said it better than me Alhoa