What does everyone think about the new 'declare your parents education' UCAS rule?

[NotanOtter]

Seems a heap of proverbial to me....

How would I judge applicants? Well I hope on their OWN merits.
I am absolutely serious about now regretting I went to university at all.

Dino, I emailed you last night...

Difficult to judge on own merits without interviews. Do universities still do that? Most of my students were offered places on the basis of UCAS forms only.

Unless it's a small course or Oxbridge interviews are pretty unlikely.

Another important point is the fact that not having a degree does not mean you will be any less of a supportive parent who reads with their kids, makes sure they have the correct equipment, gets them to school on time etc. I have taught many bright, able and enthusiastic kids who are able to reach their potential because their parents support them. Some of these parents have degrees but many more are just good parents. The ones whose parents have degrees are IME no more at an advantage than the others who 'just' have conscientious parents.

The more I think about this the more arbitrary I think parents having a degree might be.

By that I mean if your parents having a degree is seen as making a difference then being a conscientious parent can very often bridge that gap. (assuming neither went to a sink school)

This is really tricky. I think they've decided at a political level in favour of 'widening participation'

but haven't a clue how to do it without it resulting in a crude and discriminatory system (rather like the one they say they want to replace).

The last time this came up there was talk of a post-coded system.

Supplementary questions will include:

Were you fed Fruit Shoots as a child?

Which of the following have you consumed: fresh pasta, polenta, organic courgettes, raisins.

What was your daily TV intake between the ags of 5 and 10: less than 1 hour, 1-2 hours, 2-3 hours, 3hours plus? Was this CBeebies/CBBC or a commercial channel?

What do you call the meal you have in the evening?

What name did you use for your grandmother?

Which newspaper does your family take?

Where do you usually holiday?

On certificates I thought of that later and you're right. It's a non point. They would have to have a database of people who had been, ask for parents' names and dates of bith and then check those who say they haven't been to see if they did.

I don't think this will be a major issue in awarding places, just one additional factor.

So is everyone's conclusion that a candidate's claim to have parents without degrees will be uncheckable? Love your list, UnquietDad.

Like the list UD. We had interesting discussions, daughter 1 and I about her personal statement on the UCAS form. Would she get leftie entrance people who would see showjumping, sking, sailng and put her in the reject pile. In the end we did tone it down a bit and must have got the balance right.

As for if they will check etc I think it would be better not to risk getting found out and losing a place because I don't think it will have a huge impact either way. 80% or whatever of people who get in will probably have parents who went to university still anyway.

Yes, I'm obviously not advocating cheating - it'll be like cheating on school entry - really serious if you get found out and a stupid thing to do. It just seems daft to bring it in if it's uncheckable. It makes it more likely that unis will recruit liars.

ATM, do candidates enclose certificates to prove their prowess in showjumping etc? Could be unwieldy if you enclosed everything including your Scouts' sewing badge certificate, etc?

I think the new criteria for uni admissions should be how many avocadoes (avocados?) you've eaten

Only your parents must pronounce it advocado.

The main criteria at most universities is simply A level grades. So doesn't matter how good at showjumping you are if you're going to get CCC and it's Oxford for English or whatever then you won't get in. The schools check the forms. On music they would have a good idea if the pupil was saying 3 grade 8s and yet that pupil was never in the school orchestras. I wasn't asked to show the children's music certs but I doubt they were material to the applications anyway. It's all just background stuff. One of my children said I'll put grade 8 instrument down when I only got grade 7 and I didn't allow that. I'm not sure the school or university would have been able to check I suppose.

The other one is Duke of Edinburgh awards which my children all did. If someone put Gold when they only had bronze is that checked? Again they usually do it through the school so the school checks the form and records.

But I expect people can expand the truth a bit about their work experience or helping with the church Sunday school when they've only done it once etc.

Huge numbers of adult CVs have lies on them and good HR people learn how to check and spot.

Oh, I see, so the school checks - that is some kind of safeguard then.

on the BA course I've taught on which is in London, better not name institution I suppose but it would count as a redbrick and has a good reputation, EVERYONE is interviewed and also has to produce a piece of written work which is discussed at the interview. So it isn't just all about what goes on the form.

Hmm have to say that, as a 'leftie' academic type, I would probably just ignore the presence of skiing and showjumping on a CV rather than actually tossing the student on the reject pile for mentioning it. We are not all quite so petty and resentful as Xenia seems to think.

Sorry why would a "leftie" ignore skiing and showjumping?

Durely any political persuasion would ignore such unacademic or uncultural pursuits????

CAM you may well be right - I know I would ignore them but Xenia seemed to be implying students do put them on applications to impress tutors.

Sport, health, team player, good for university teams and it's been a huge part of her life, all those 7am starts, going places on her own, hiring horse boxes age 15, commitment, competing, pushing yourself to win when the majority of teenage girls eat chips and go out drinking. I think it should be a plus point as should anything committed like spending most weekends in the local old people's home etc.

The personal statement usually has a section about your work experience too.

Also importantly why you are fascinated by the subject you've chosen which I think is important too.

On interviews interestingly none of my 3 children in the last 4 years had an interview at any of the 6 universities they put down so I was assuming except at Oxbridge interviews were rare but I may be wrong.

"
Also importantly why you are fascinated by the subject you've chosen which I think is important too"

IME as leftie academic this is by far the most important bit - would rarely take any notice of the showjumping/work experience unless relevant.

None of this extra stuff gets checked, the admin for this is huge enough when it comes to grades and references

(even as a leftie entrance person, I wouldn't dream of discriminating, Xenia but it's probably a good call to tone it down because it's likely that someone else might have different ideas).

Yes, you want students who love the subject. They're much more fun to teach. This daughter won a cruise down the nile age 8 and loved the subject ever since. It was a good start to the personal statement, stood out and was true.

Lots of people don't even mention the subject they want to study in their personal statement--I take that as a negative sign.

Yes, commitment to the subject is paramount but from my limited experience of students too many (particularly in law) see their degree as absolutely nothing beyond as a step in their future brilliant career. Some have contempt not only for their teachers but for the whole 'boring' process of having to actually learn about law in order to practise it and make their lovely money. In my humble leftie opinion the 'drive to win' and competitiveness are not of (much) relevance at all to the academic potential of a student- yes some of them (especially Oxbridge males) do seem to see university as a path to life's glittering prizes but in my experience these are not the most thoughtful and well-rounded students. They do make good investment bankers, though.

Though it would perhaps be nice to have a few who were used to getting up at dawn regularly, as they might bother to turn up to one's 10 am tutorials, and without a hangover or worse....