being a mum/mom in the US - this makes me want to express solidarity

[hatwoman]

I was actually quite moved by this article in the Grauniad. I wonder if mn hq could put a link (an official one on a banner) to their website . It really makes me angry that a country like the US can be so backwards.

One one hand they say they are have no party affiliation but have a libral action commitee?

Backwards.

And this from a country where many didn't even have an indoor toilet just thirty years ago.

I agree, it has its faults. There are many reasons why I'd never live there again - the live to work ethic and fascism being two of the big ones.

But backwards?

LOL.

I've experienced some major discrimination here in the job interviewing process myself.

ok "backwards in respect of non-discrimination and family-friendly policies" - kind of thought, in the context, it wasn't necessary to spell out.

paula - its perfectly possible to be liberal without being affiliated to a political party.

I'd venture to say the UK is just as discriminatory.

In fact, I was quite shocked at some of the questions people were legally allowed to ask here when I first arrived. I lived in a state where you couldn't even ask birthdate of candidates and where you submitted CVs with initials only.

Even now, I've been asked extremely personal questions about my health and life here. I'm even forming a website with some of these applications, which are ALL legal in teh UK at the moment to highlight the discrimination.

I agree the live to work ethic there is appalling.

I was discussing the article today too and was actually using the same words: backwards.

I had a telephone job interview yesterday for a big organisation in Europe and they asked if I were offered the job when could I move, did I have any family committments. I answered the first part, that I'd need to give my employers 3 months' notice and didn't answer the second part, despite the awkward silence with them waiting at the other end, as I didn't think it was any of their business.

having worked for US corporations I would say the corporate US culture is not just backwards, it is positively antedeluvian.
having indoor plumbing or not is rather beside the point in this context .
the US is an extraordinarily crappy place to be pregnant and or a parent.

LOL Not in the States

Wow, Paula, you can't even laugh in the States now?

Sorry Christina read your post wrong. I see what you mean now.

Couldn't agree more HC. Being pregnant in the US is crap. Rules vary from state to state but there is little, if any, maternity leave available. I was given:

• 1 week sick leave (60% pay)
• 4 weeks on short term disability (unpaid)
• and I saved up 3 weeks of vacation time to make up my maternity leave.

All my Dr appointments & check-ups were taken from my sick leave (I don't know how this works in the UK).

My maternity care was fantastic though (although cost my insurance company $30,000 - thank goodness I had insurance), so I can't

In my job interviews here I have always been asked about my family (am I married, kids, visiting relatives overseas etc) and felt obliged to answer.

I have to say that I completely disagree. You may have legislation in the UK to prevent discrimination. But in practice, I found the working world to be much more difficult when I was pregnant and as mother with young children. Yes, I was "allowed" by law to take time off for my medical appointments in the UK, but the reality was that not only did I have to take a whole day off for a single appointment because I was not allowed to have a gp near my work, I had to have one near my home and there were always long lines and no choice in hours, but my employer always managed to make me feel awful for the time I took off. In the USA, you get to choose your doctor and therefore choose the location, and choose one who doesn't have long lines and no appointments. Yes, in the usa we don't get paid maternity legislated by the government. But the paid maternity leave I had in the UK was so pitiful, it was hardly worth the trouble and my employer abused me so much for taking it, that it was miserable. And in the USA it is much easier (at least in my field) to find part time work with flexible hours that suits a working mother. And all the services (shopping, businesses, medical etc. etc.) are geared to be available outside of normal working hours, so that you can actually function much more easily.
Since I moved back to the USA, my quality of life has been 100 times better. If I go shopping at 6pm with two kids in tow, I find food in the stores and people are nice and helpful. (You would be hard pressed to find a supermarket in the usa where the person who bags your grocercies doesn't also offer to carry them out to your car and load them in for you...) This behavior isn't legislated, it's just part of the culture. In addition, I pay far less taxes, so I have more disposable income to pay for things that the government doesn't pay for (like health care and child care subsidies), but the difference is that I get to choose what is right and practical for my lifestyle rather than having to take what some central governement (full of fat white men) thinks is good for me.

Well, your life may well be 100 times better but others' would be 100 times worse. I much prefer a system where disadvantaged people also get a chance at a decent life.

Sofia I hear you. I am also not a fan of big government. I wish the taxes were lower here to. I am a huge fan of people getting to choose how their money is spent.

work life here is horrid. my colleagues have only 10 days holiday and don't even take them.

my boss asked me yesterday how european business can possibly function with as much as 5 weeks holiday a year (and the rest for mainland europe). I said 'they just do'.

she looks ill, never see's her son and has never been anywhere other than on business.

agree that it is crappy and rubbis. most of our uk maternity rights laws have only been forced upon us by European legislation though, and usually implemented very reluctantly, often needing to be re-referred back to the European courts and changed. if that makes any of our US posters feel any better?

yes, the UK is kinda down the middle between Europe and the US (imo of course)

ML is going up now from 26 weeks to 39 (I think, in April). I don't really care if it's given with reluctance or joy. I'm not going to benefit from it but it can only be a good thing. I don't begrudge paying taxes for this. Now the war in Iraq...that's another matter. I don't think it's realistic to want control over what you pay and what you don't or some things will never get paid and it will be back to relying on charity, philantropists etc. You can have control, in theory at least, when you exercise your right to vote.

Cristina, I'm not sure which disadvantaged people you are referring to. Low income, virtually single, working mother. That's me.
I don't really understand why you think forced poorly paid ML can only be a good thing. Personally I would much prefer flexible hours and parttime work. And I don't see how the government could possibly be qualified to make those choices for me. And why on earth is it unrealistic to want control over how your money is spent. In fact, Americans give more to charity on a personal level than any other nationality in the world. We don't rely on our government to take the money from us and give it to others with all sorts of strings attached. When I first got to England I was appalled at how little my colleagues in London chose to give to charities, until I realized how much was taken out of our paychecks for taxes.

DaddyCool, your friend sounds like a typical working mother anywhere in the world.
I think that if the government is going to legislate how you have to live your life in order to have a good one, then they should do it properly like they do in Sweden. But also bear in mind that Sweden has a much more culturally homogenous society than either the UK or the USA, so centrally generated rules and regulations are far more likely to suit/please the vast majority of the population. However, the neither here nor there approach that happens in the uk, is a mess. And saying that the US is backwards in comparison is really uninformed and very much the pot calling the kettle black.

"I don't really understand why you think forced poorly paid ML can only be a good thing. Personally I would much prefer flexible hours and parttime work." You've got it wrong. I'm not advocating forced poorly paid ML. There's nothing to stop you giving up your ML in the UK and taking up a part-time job with flexible hours. I don't see your point. The ML is for those who want it, not being forced down anyone's throat. Although I would find the forced return to work after 2 weeks slightly inhuman.

"In fact, Americans give more to charity on a personal level than any other nationality in the world. We don't rely on our government to take the money from us and give it to others with all sorts of strings attached." We have different views on this. I don't think it should be up to individuals only to be charitable. Not just for rich people to set up a philantropic thing or another. Those all sorts of strings attached that terrify you may actually mean taking care at society level that those groups have some rights too.

I realise it must come as a shock to you that some people consider social policy in America to be backwards.

Oh it is a moving article. I love the sales where cookies where they're priced depeding on whether you're a man a woman or a mother.

cristina,
no doesn't come as a shock to me....I lived in the UK for 7 years and listen to the english tell me over and over how awful my country was. Apart from the fact that generally these opinions came from people who had never even been to the usa (forget about having lived there) and people who really were extremely uniformed about what actually took place (most of their information seemed to come from the sun and the daily mail). In addition, I just could never reconcile those opinions with the fact that I was personally experiencing the complete opposite. I had a terrible drop in the quality of my life while in the uk. This included 1)absolutely abysmal medical care (worse than I've seen and experienced in many third world countries and certainly worse than anything anyone I have spoken with in the usa rich or poor has experienced; 2) discrimination in the workplace because of my gender, my age and the fact that I was pregnant and that I was a parent; 3) snobbery towards my family because my husband is working class and from the northeast (seems to be only one step above having the plague in london); 4) verbal and physical abuse towards my children simply because they were children 5) Lack of choice of a decent state school because I am an atheist 6) And just to top it all off....grossly expensive housing, food, services and rotten weather.

The US is not very popular in the UK at the moment, a very low point in Anglo/US relations. Pity we lost the war of independence all those years ago. But leaving that aside the issue is how protectoinist you want to be. As someone said below the US has been ahead of us with anti-ageism laws but we are just now catching up.