Another toddler dies from choking on a grape :(

[pucca]

See here, lovely little girl, it is so sad

story here

That is so unbearably sad. The poor parents and brothers.

Life is so unfair

I think its really important in cases like these to have first aid knowledge

I did a first aid for babies course when my ds was about four months old and found it incredibly useful. I have done various first aid courses before but they never touch on how to deal with a baby (it is quite different).

Re. grapes - it's not only their shape, it's also the nature of their skin I think - it "sticks" quite easily to the windpipe making it extremely difficult to dislodge once there. When my ds went to baby and toddler group before Christmas, we joined up with the nursery and participated in snack time. When someone asked me why I was biting the grapes in half for ds and I explained, everyone else followed suit (apart from the nursery teacher who huffed and puffed that it wasn't necessary )!

There is a specific course that is designed for childminders, mothers etc. and it is for babies/children

Indeed - perhaps a wider campaign to encourage everyone to cut up grapes and cherry tomatoes for under-5s? I certainly don't let DS eat whole grapes becasue there was a choking story when he was about 5 month old that gave me nightmares (paramedics at the scene, couldn't remove the grape in time).
ANd nuts. Don't give nuts to under 5s. I was brougth up on horror stories of lethal peanuts, only allowed a few as a treat now and again and ordered to sit still and eat one at a time - nearly too scared to eat them at all.

Our HVs ran a series of postnatal sessions that included one on basic first aid and safety for babies and toddlers (mind you, DS screamed solidly the whole way through so my attention was rather diverted). It was definitely a good idea.

Just out of interest, if your child was chocking on a grape and lost consciousness, would you make a hole in said child's windpipe to potentially save his/her life? (I can't remember the name of the procedure, but I saw it on ER the other night and it got me thinking).

That is choking NOT chocking. Doh.

Callisto - I would allow a medical person to do that for DD if it was going to help save her life; I'd do anything. But I couldn't do it myself. I would probably kill her in trying.

interesting point callisto - my dd2 suffers from reflex apnoeic seizures ( stops breathing due to fight) the first tiem she did it i thought she had inhaled something and was thumping her back and obviously nothing came up and it did cross my mind if i would be able to do an emergency tracheostomy - though know how not sure if could do it on my own child - hate to ever have to find out.

Terrible tragedy. I wish more parents would do first aid classes. I did a course when ds was 8 months old, I hope to God I will NEVER have to use it, but death from choking is so common and possibly preventable.

its awful

I am absolutely paranoid about choking and cut grapes up I did a basic life support course recently and they said grapes and cherry tomatoes are the two things that cause choking

I still cut grapes up for dd who is almost 3 and will continue to do so. As I understand it, it's the skin on grapes that stick and cause the choking ?
I too am the only mum in my group who cuts up grapes still and cherry tomatoes. I get funny looks and obvious sighs in some cases !

It's a bit like the mix of toddlers with some dogs (probably opening up a huge can of worms here) - recipe for disaster in my opinion.

I hear it was more to do with the shape of grapes and tomatoes ie there's nothing for a rescuer to get a grip on and the things, if stuck, keep rolling round.

As for emergency tracheotomy... brr, hope I don't ever have to do one. Because, if nothing else has worked and there's no one else there, then there comes a point where it's worth trying anything cos you can't make things worse (CPR on someone with no heartbeat or breathing, etc, even if you don't really know how). I kind of hope that if I had to I would be able to do it with a steady hand, but would rather not EVER be in such a situation.

Tillyboo, FWIW I don't think it's a good idea to leave kids under about 7 alone with any pet for anything more than a couple of minutes. Though it's not a matter of blaming a toddler for being bitten, kids can sometimes poke an animal up the nose or pull its tail once too often and, if there's no adult there to separate the two, bad stuff can happen with all but the most utterly soppy and senile pet.

Tracheotomy - thats the word. I would if it was my last option and as Madamez says it is worth trying anything at that point. Lets hope it never comes to it for any of us.

Could someone please tell me if that can be done by a non medic ? Could I be trained to do it ?

The other terrible thing I have heard of, is being stung inside the throat by a wasp. The swelling causes choking. Heard of a motorcyclist who saved himself by removing a tube from his motorbike and putting it down his throat after being stung so he could breath.

Wasps get into sweet drinks, people drink and wasp goes inside mouth. The thought makes me ill if it were to happen to a child.

I don't see why it couldn't be performed by a non-medic. All you need to do is find the wind pipe and get a sharp knife and a tube of some kind to hold the hole open. A quick google has found this: Emergency Tracheotomy

Thanks Callisto. I will ask some orgs. whether they can train me to do this on a child. I hope none of us will ever need to, but I would do it as part of my First Aid training.

If anyone is interested in First Aid, contact your local St John Ambulance. Worth doing esp. when you have a baby that still puts things into his mouth.

Glad I've seen this - HV suggested giving finger foods to DS so was going to try him on grapes, I would have cut it up small but I should imagine even the skin on a small bit could cause probs. He's going to nursery soon (if we can get a place) should I tell them my concerns or???

yes Nikki - make sure your nursery are aware of the dangers of grapes and other small round fruit/veg. I would be very concerned if they don't know already.

Glad you said that - was feeling really paranoid about having to ask them but its my duty as his mum isn't it! We are going on two visits tmw...wish me luck. Thought of leaving DS in nursery for others to feed/watch over fills me with absolute dread......how can anyone else watch him as well as I do???

Good luck Nikki - It will make you more comfortable if they know First Aid, etc. I would do this anywhere - nursery, school, etc. they should have been trained in First Aid.

somebody told me that you have to cut the grape lengthways rather than round the middle, is that true?

i cut mine lenghtways into 4

I've mentioned this before on Mnet, but those frankfurter type sausages are also a choking hazard, even in older kids. They are apparently the perfect dimension for blocking the wind-pipe. If they are eaten with a bread bun it's even harder to dislodge them as all that gooey half-masticated bread forms a barrier in the mouth.

Other mothers think I'm mad, but the few times we serve them, I always cut them in half length-ways. Particularly at parties or teas when the children are more likely to get excited and muck around.