mothers with young children are the most discriminated against at work

[paddingtonbear1]

I haven't actually found this in my company, and it's very small - only 18 employees. But I can imagine if I looked for another job, I might find it hard to get one, being a mother still under 40. I couldn't believe some of the comments in the 'have your say' on the bbc website though - most people seem to think that women who can't afford to stay at home shouldn't have kids at all! That would be me then! I don't think in this day and age, with mortgages and other rising costs, that's practical. I don't take advantage though, fortunately dd isn't sick very often, and dh does his share.
I think most of the people making the comments were men, or people with no kids...

I recently had a job interview for a senior post. The MD asked me what my child care arrangements were! I stared at him gosbmacked for a good 30 seconds and then just stuttered that I share responsibility with my husband or something equally vague.
I wasn't offered the job and I wouldn't have taken it even if I had been.

Still looking for a permanent job post birth of no2.....

Actually am in the office of place I am freelancing now and it's 8.20pm so hey I can do the hours! (as long as I get 5 mins to check out mumsnet of course! )

VVV, you quoted Xenia there, not Eleusis.

Xenia, so you do the bicycling trick, smile at the people above you and frantically kick the people below. That's why we're in the state were in.

Yes, I know....I said "Says who?" at the end ie to Xenia, and then addressed another point with Eleusis.

One of the few points I agree with you Xenia in theory at least, is that careers for men and women should be considered equally important and therefore both males and females should be expected to take time off work on occaision for their children.

However, in practise this does not work. Not for many couples and not for me. My husband is a lawyer who runs his own business whereas I am an employed graduate on a teacher/ nurse level. This means my husbands job is "more important" on several levels;
He earns several times the amount I do
If he is not at his work our income suffers
His job is considered by society to be more important

To give him his due, he has worked around his work commitments on more than one occaision, to ensure that I am at my work full hours, but it does irritate me that this is the case and that NOT all careers are equal.

Any comments?

Monkeytrousers...I used by in the military and we had a slightly different analogy...a tree full of monkeys looking up.....

if you are on the upper branches you just see lots of grinning faces...if you are on the lower ones you just get a load of shit in your face!

Go Aderyneryn.

Buy beasksy how come you married a higher earner? That's the core problem. 4 in 5 women marry up so you never get equality. When couples earn the same or the woman earns more you have a fair debate about who looks after children. As long as one earns a huge load more women will be unfairly saddled with all the dull domestic stuff and their work won't matter as much as their husbands.

Ad, I think looking at the many post from mothers on mnet lots have to take days of sick when the child is sick pretending they are sick etc and cannot afford child care alternatives so yes it's probably true working mother on the whole excepot the dedicated good ones or the better paid ones who can afford childcare emergency back up are a bad bet.

Adn there's Heather Mills McCartney walking away with £200m for 4 years of putting up w/Macca.

Damn, I wish I'd have thought of that .

i agree with xenia.

why employ a trout who is going to be off occasionally with sick children - possibly be late hospital appts etcetc allt he childcare minefields we have to navigate everyday.

employers are thee to make money not to be nice.

this is capitalism ladies and gentlemen. few of us actually have an option to chose whether to go into one job or another.

the system has you by the balls.

if your rich and can afford a nanny - cool. you have choice.

if you dont your screwed - your kids are screwed and your on a hiding to nothing, no career progression and fuck all flexibility from emplyers along with the GOVTs push parents into work drive - means a huge pool of low paid plebs who have to do the masters bidding.

you all should have married up!

in hindsight - i seriously wish i did. stick love up the arse, i'm sick of being trapped.

But those folk being off with children etc are more likely to take as unpaid leave, arent they?

As far as capitalism goes - productivity MUST override presenteeism, surely?

'in hindsight - i seriously wish i did. stick love up the arse, i'm sick of being trapped. '

Custy for PM!

Absofuckinglutely!

DO NOT GIVE UP, CUSTARDO OF THE BIRTHDAY TWINS. I honestly think you have the brains and skills and beauty and determination yada yada yada but it's true to untrap yourself even within a system that is, as you say, unfair and crap in many ways.

We are faced with an ageing population. On the basis of some of the arguments we hear then society is faced with an impossible choice. Either women of working age work but don't have children, leading to a future reduction in the working-age population. Or they have children and stay at home, leading to a current reduction in the working-age population. Neither of those options is workable, especially if those childless people who complain still want to retire on some sort of pension.

As a society we need women to have children AND work - we musn't force women to do both, but women with children who wish to/have to work should be encouraged all the way and given every possible help to achieve this.

No, we can easily bring young people in. London is full of hard working Catholic Poles for example. Do not worry about lack of people.

But if you don't like capitalism pick a communist state and move there.

So women who can't afford a nanny aren't allowed to work at all, is that it?

can't afford to move xenia - see aforementioned trapped.

Did you ever read 'Hard Work' Xenia, when I posted it?

Capitalism vs communism

Again, there need be no such lazy dichotomy. Thank gaia for progessive forces

The lagers were pure capitalism without legisation.

Nah, Xenia.

Why move when it's so much more fun to vote liberal and put people in office who'll piss you off and tax you even harder?

In fact, I'm glad you're here, you represent what the Tory party is really about, in case anyone's forgotten.

Alright-

Between Xenia's dangerous bourgeois (perhaps petit in origin as DC?s seems to be) middle classness - (the kind Günter Grass writes about) and Custy's working class apathy there has to be a middle ground FFS!

'A very short introduction to capitalism' is good on that, mt. The author bloke basically says capitalism is here to stay as no other workable system is or ever has been in existence. But he argues convincingly that it not only can be but should be socially tweakable to protect workers and the vulnerable. Excellent wee book.

Yes very tweakable

will have a look Scrummy

Um, mt. Not annoyed or anything but my chat name is actually not ScRummyMummy. Just thought you might like to know in case you're a details person. i am happy to continue to reply to Scrummy if you particularly like it but it does sound a little, er, fluffy, or something for my usual tastes tbh.

Xenia ~ "Ad, I think looking at the many post from mothers on mnet lots have to take days of sick when the child is sick pretending they are sick etc and cannot afford child care alternatives so yes it's probably true working mother on the whole excepot the dedicated good ones or the better paid ones who can afford childcare emergency back up are a bad bet."

Ah well, if it's written about on Mumsnet, then it must be wholly representative of the country :hmm (No offense Mumsnet )

I sure hope those in charge of government policy will scrap the Office of National Statistics and start using Internet forums to measure absence from work.

Do you know what I've noticed? People who go skiing often have accidents and then need time off work. Perhaps employers should stop recruiting people who go skiing. Because obviously anecdotal evidence counts for a lot.