Guardian Family: Confessions of a Full Time Mother

[morningpaper]

Confessions of a Full Time Mother

"Kirsty Gunn is not working on her next novel. She is not a columnist for the London Review of Books. She has chosen instead to disappear from the professional world and embrace a domestic life just as rich and interesting and inspiring ... "

PAH! She's opted out of the professional world - well except for this article and the book she has just written about her "year as a full time mum" - full time that is, except for the 30 hours a week that her children are at school in which I presume she fannies about writing drivel like this.

At first I thought it was an ironic joke, but sadly not. Perhaps she is friends with that woman who survived the concentration-camp conditions of Fulham after that breeze blew her wooden grapes off the sideboard...

Well in that case I agree. Weird prose style which I doubt the Times/Sunday Times etc would have published but the Guardian gets desperate may be. They give it away at gyms and places.

Exactly YR. That's my point Xenia, if you reduce every thread you're on to a WOHM/ SAHM debate, it just gets really boring. And also, you don't have to state your views in that insulting way. You categorically stated that SAHMS feel inadequate. That isn't debate or opinion, that's personal insult and it's deliberately designed to get a load of angry posts refuting the suggestion. Which if it happens on every thread, gets really very tedious.

And btw, I find ironing, cleaning etc. pretty dull, but tbh I don't really notice when I'm doing it; physical labour is preferable to mental tedium, imo, because when I'm washing the dishes, my brain is my own, whereas if I'm stuck in a call centre (often the only work option for lots of women), I do actually have to listen to the dull people who are calling about their insurance. You can't have Radio 4 on when you're in your office. You don't get programmes about William Wilberforce and the anti-slavery campaign, the rape conviction rate, Darfur, the Cleveland case, the food industry, contemporary religion, the arts, movies, etc. etc. etc., in an office. When I'm listening to an absorbing programme about the latest developments in some medical field or other, I don't actually notice what surface I'm wiping, I'm thinking about something interesting. I could quite easily say to you why on earth do you have so few personal resources, that you need to go to an office to find entertainment, fulfilment and interest - don't you have a TV, radio, books? But that would be ludicrously insulting, idiotic and crass, wouldn't it, so I wouldn't phrase my questions in such a tiresome manner.

You do seem to be genuinely confused as to how anyone can have a good time at home, so I'm going to attempt to take you seriously and try and let you know why I do. (Although I do do 16 hours paid work at home in the 25 hours my kids are out of the house.) In between doing my paid work, I have a whale of a time - no paid work I've ever done has been as interesting as the books I now have time to read, and the radio programmes I have time to listen to. Last week, I met a friend who works locally at lunchtime and we went running and I'll be doing that regularly. Occasionally I try and fit in my paid work, which tends to be an unwelcome interruption to all the more enjoyable things I do.

Does that help you to understand some of why some SAHM's might actually enjoy the time they spend out of the workplace?

cod, don't see what her age has to do with it

When I was 44 dd1 was 28 and dd2 was 4

good grief - what a pile of shite article! How seriously is it possible to take oneself?! Please please - don't buy her book - it'll only encourage more of the same nonsense!

Message withdrawn

Oh this thread is HILARIOUS! Thank you.
Especially for Aloha's "Yeah, I'm 43, and despite having children have not lost the ability to put fucking shoes on, you moron" and Moo's piece, fantastic.
I haven't read the article but I don't think I need to.

Can we try to get back to the voice of reason in this debate? Yes i agree Caligula, the whole WOHM/ SAHM thing from Xenia has become really boring because she just bangs on with the same old thing. I think, however, the reason the subject keeps cropping up and that people feel so strongly about it, is that very many people these days are feeling disempowered and lacking in choice. This makes people automatically feel very defensive about their position. If you are working because you can't afford not to, then it hurts to feel people are knocking you, even if you and your DCs are fine. Equally SAHMs can be made to feel they are being lazy and selfish. If people have control over their lives, then generally this makes for happier people. The problem with our society is that generally speaking (and I KNOW there are exceptions to the rule so please don't feel you have to bash me with them) the vast majority of people DO NOT HAVE CHOICES AVAILABLE TO THEM. We are reaching a point where the only families who can afford to have a parent in the home are either where the mother (and it's usually the mother) has a partner who earns an excessively high income, or at the other end of the spectrum, a single parent who is almost as well off on benefits so may as well be at home. It is now virtually impossible for a traditional nuclear family, mother, father and children, to live on one income - and I mean literally LIVE, ie pay housing, utility and food costs, not thinking of luxuries. This is a terrible indictment on our society.This is what the real debate should be about. Give people an element of control in their lives.

Caligula you are so right.

I feel very intellectually stimulated. As you have pointed out I have more access to the news during the day and I get through two newspapers. I also manage to read on average two books a week. One fiction and one non. I'm not completely zoned out when I'm running errands in the car, cooking, or doing housework. I also get a chance to be creative. I'm always having to find new crafts to do with my daughter and make up new story lines for Barbie. I don't have time to go to the gym but i'm sure chasing my daughter around the park and dancing wildly around the living room burn lots of calories. I don't have time to be bored.

Aitch, I've reported her to MNHQ and my personal offer to her still stands.

It looks to me like Xenia employs a nanny so she can MN! How horrible to have a nanny on a SUnday, FGS, and then bloody well arse about on Mumsnet! Poor, poor children!

You're envious? Really?

God no, it's sad.

I'm hardly being totally serious...

Oops! Sorry!

Excellent post Caligula. Just this week in a playground I have met with mums from Slovakia, Italy and another who was a student and SAHM from Pakistan while ds ran around playing with their kids, screaming and going down the slide.....and guess what ? We talked about languages, politics and religion.

That is far more than I ever managed to do with my Senior Partner at work. He just blank refused to talk about anything other than banking law and the World Cup (big yawwwwwwnnnnn !!) NOT one of the SAHM mums I talked to this week talked about potty training, what brand washing up liquid they buy nor how the only entertainment they have all week is their trip to Asda

I think the nanny on a sunday mention is meant to be a bit of a red rag to a bull.

Caligula, I totally agree that there is a lot of mental stimulation to be had in being at home - as you so rightly say, your time is more your own, so you can fit in newspaper reading and radio listening without having to obey someone else's rules and regulations. When I was a SAHM I loved it.

(coincidently I am learning a lot about William Wilberforce and the commemoration of the abolitionist movement this year - it is the main part of my job at the moment )

There you are judging me, though aren't you? Do you have some book from God which say as a parent though shalt spend X amount of time with your children - remember I'm in year 22 of being a monther and I never made it by be all and end all - I slotted it into a professional life and had five children. It's just a different way of doing it that suited me fine. Having 5 children and having such huge post divorce debt because of what I paid out to my husband means I need to work harder than some people. It gets back to that point below about choice in a way. I would rather be reading the papers with a nanny on a SUnday morning than working with a nanny. I do enjoy a few hours with my children a day but I have never enjoyed 10 hours with them a day and I don't see why I should be judged for that. You can love someone a husband a child or whatever and not want to spend every minute with them. Many men take my view and I don't see why I should be hung drawn and quartered because as a woman I take a male view.

Many a woman might prefer to spend Sunday mornings in the spa rather than watching children's TV every single week or whatever.

I have also spent a lot of time today sorting out various things with various children starting with the oldest at 6.30am getting off to catch a bus to watch Chelsea. I'm a mother like everyone else on here so in fact hvae more in common with you than those who choose to be childless. it's just a matter of degree.

She's Mills & Boon's star novelist

Can I just join AitchTwoO and Sunnywong in asking what on earth that very bizarre and unexplained comment was from SpanniaPiana?

I sincerely hope it wasn't what it sounded like.

But spending time with your children does not have to mean a huge sacrifice in doing the things you want to do.

I have read the sunday papers while sitting outside in Greenwich park while my 7 year old son played in the sandpit. He was happy, I was happy. I wouldn't have wanted a nanny at home this Sunday aeven if you had paid me to have one.

I agree that for me, having babies and toddlers is more hard work and you can't switch off so easily when you are with them. I would find it very difficult to go back to stage one and have another child now, relive the todder years again. But, if I wanted to have another child, I would commit myself to spending time with them at weekends at least.

Aren't your youngest children, your twins, aged 8? Is it really so difficult for you to have space for yourself when in their company? Perhaps it is - I don't know how demanding your children are. I know with mine, if they have been taken out or we have shared an activitgy, they will often happily do their own stuff at home for several hours, while I catch up with emails, phone calls, reading, mumsnet, - all the stuff I'd be doing if I was alone anyway.

"So you wash a floor. Someone messes it up. You wash it again"

substitute

so you steer a thread to WOHM v SAHM, you flog it to death, then you do it again (and again) [and again]. Why is that not boring?

believe me love, it bloody is!

We have help in every Saturday and Sunday now. Unfortunately I don't get time to read the papers still, but ds1 and ds2 get to go swimming, d2 gets someone to help him with his homework, and well it means someone is around to give ds3 some one on one as well etc etc. I think with lots of needy children (no idea whether Xenia's fit that description) an extra pair of hands can always be welcome. Whether Sat or Sun, or during the week. Just provides flexibility. Luckily mine comes free, otherwise we wouldn't get it and there'd be no swimming.

'Why does any SAH parent find it intellectual satisfying to sopend the majority of the day repeating dull tasks (assuming most people don't have cleaners and nannies). '

I wonder the same thing about people who are workaholics, Xenia. I mean, I don't get how you'd sell your entire life away for a job. I really don't, because at the end of the day, it's just a farking JOB.

Hope she is a mumsnetter

It won't matter if she is, Ulysses. She'll just get black affronted and not take any of it on board as the truth.

People like her never do.