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Original poster

Why is the UK such a bad place to be a child?

103 replies

Rantum · 23/02/2007 17:24

Unicef's survey of 21 industrialised countries looked at 40 indicators including family relationships, health and poverty and the UK came BOTTOM for the well-being of children. We are a country of relative wealth so why are we failing our children?

OP posts:
nailpolish · 26/02/2007 16:31

colony houses are lovely

tbh i would rather live in a tenement flat in edinburgh than a bungalow in east lothian

ScottishThistle · 26/02/2007 16:33

No prob, my Mother doesn't actually live in TESCO Town!!!

expatinscotland · 26/02/2007 16:33

Yeah, but he's old and wants peace and quiet and a big garden for his grandkids and his wife's flowers and veg.

I'm in a very trendy area and they're firing up flats as fast as they can and converting every warehouse they can get their hands on.

There's one conversion going on across the street and another round hte corner.

MrsSpoon · 26/02/2007 16:35

Phew, thought I had just managed to put my foot in it.

NP I agree with you, love old tenements.

nailpolish · 26/02/2007 16:36

expat i was down at britannia area at the weekend and these flats across the road from it - every second one ws for sale

i can see how they would have a high turn over as yousaid

i dont want new build flats, but i would like tenement

snowleopard · 26/02/2007 16:36

As for tenements, I've experienced lovely harmonious tenement life and grim, miserable tenement life. It's like a crucial mass - if there's a majority of people who care about the property, it tips it that way, and if it's overwhelmingly full of people who trash it, it tips the other way. The last tenement I lived in was like that and tbh we left before TTC because it was so exhausting trying to keep up with all the repairs and deal with the antisocial behaviour. I do know I'm lucky to have had that choice.

expatinscotland · 26/02/2007 16:36

I'd go old, definitely, naily.

The new ones are totally soul-less.

nailpolish · 26/02/2007 16:39

this has turned into a housing discussion

(sorry thats my fault)

i also imagine these new build to be full of trendy child-less types

ScottishThistle · 26/02/2007 16:39

Hate new build housing though not so bad for children if they at least have a fab playpark like some of them have!

expatinscotland · 26/02/2007 16:46

They preferred to be called 'childfree', naily, although 'childhater' is more often the term needed.

nailpolish · 26/02/2007 16:46

i lot of tenements in Edinburgh seem to be conservation areas too

i live d in Bath St in portobello for a while, we tried toget new windows, had to get wooden, sash and case without new string etc, that all had to be kept

i cant remember the exact cost but it wsa about 15K - that was 8yrs ago

and it was top floor. so no-one outside would have even noticed!

needless to say we couldnt replace the windows

it wasnt evne that nice an area - i have no idea why it was conservation

i drove past recently and these windows are still crumbling away

nailpolish · 26/02/2007 16:49

so to tie in with the OP

you live in a conservation area because its nice for the visitors to look at

what they dont see is inside and the children shivering in bed because their parents cant afford to replace the victorian windows

MrsSpoon · 26/02/2007 18:22

LOL NP that ties in!

IMO double glazing however is over-rated give me sash and case any day. However we do have double glazing on the front of our house, which we are about to update as the units have blown, (previous owners did it, don't think I could bear to rip sash and case out) as we live on a v busy road.

We have also lived in an old conservation area flat (not sure if it would be classed a tenement) and it was fantastic, only reason we moved was because space was getting cramped after DS2 arrived.

MrsSpoon · 26/02/2007 18:24

Suppose I should answer the OP too. TBH I think there are far worse places to bring up your children, however it doesn't stop me fantastising about emigration.

nailpolish · 27/02/2007 08:43

mrsspoon, i used to fantasise about emigration
weather reasons mainly
a friend recently took a job in Perth WA (temporary for 5 yrs) and shes already said shes glad its not permanent

i think a lot of problems stem from our weather tbh, playing outside involves coats, boots, hat etc for about 10 months of the year!

ernest · 27/02/2007 10:03

nailpolish,moving abroad is one thing, australia is something else! I personally couldn't do it. I loved Sydney, and had for a long time wanted to emigrate, but dh, to my surprise refused to go so far. Now we have emigrated, I am very glad we are so relatively close, only an hour time difference, etc.

wrt OP why are we failing & how are we failing are 2 diff. things, and most people, me included are focussing on the 'how' 'why' is a different matter, no idea, poor priorities (kids being bottom of a long list, money being at the top?). Also no idas on how to reverse it.

hellobello · 27/02/2007 15:49

People in Britain aren't very nice to young people, or dogs really. We have very high expectations of how children and teenagers should behave and often these expectations aren't met. People often don't go out as a family, eat as a family, do stuff as a family unless they are going to a special family place. It is not part of our culture. How often do you see trendy young things out for a night out having dinner amongst people with young children? In some countries, childcare is too expensive or unavailable that going out in the evening means taking the children.

OrmIrian · 27/02/2007 18:39

I do find it hard when people tell me the UK is sht and then emigrate. Talk about 'I'm alright Jack'! It's your home, if it's sht do something about it. Friends of ours are like that - they want to go to Australia because they 'can't afford' to live here and there are too many immigrants . The lifestyle they can afford looks pretty good to me ...and to the majority of the population I would imagine (5-bed detached house, 2 newish cars, 2 holidays a year usually abroad). Most of us are stuck here for financial or family reasons - you make the best of it and try to make it better as far as you can.

I also think that we've got in a huge panic about the state of the country's children. Of all the children I know I don't think there's a single one that has a deprived childhood. I live in what is generally seen as a deprived area too.

hellobello · 27/02/2007 19:27

Oh to be able to do something positive about where we live! Gangs, more gangs, regular shoot-outs and stabbings, anti-socoal behaviour, drug and gun dealing on our doorstep (yes, really), and a council full of useless idiots. If this is what the rest of England is like, it's horrible. I loved being in Scotland.

ernest · 27/02/2007 19:34

we moved because of dh's job, glad we did it tho. It's hard for ordinary people to do something.. can't remember who - sorry- further down saying her friend raised tons of money for a playgroud and was basically told 'compooter says no' by council.

how do people bring about big changes? How do you undo decades of damage done to communities? How do you change attitudes?

hellobello, where on earth do you live

OrmIrian · 27/02/2007 20:02

Residents associations can carry a lot of clout, make sure you vote in your local elections, get involved with your school PTA, become a parent-governor, work for/donate to local charities. No, none of it by itself is going to make big changes but it's change of attitude that helps. There is such a thing as society.... and if people don't put into it they get nothing out. Silly little things like talking to neighbours, not dropping litter, chatting to people in the shops all help too.

But HB I do recognise that there are some places that need a lot more than that!! BTW not all (or even much) of England is like that

ernest - you went abroad for work not just because you hated living here. It's 'the UK is shit and we're leaving asap' attitude that makes me .

hellobello · 27/02/2007 20:56

Our neighbours are really fantastic, but most of them are pretty vulnerable. The people on the estate nearby are largely beaten down by the council and many of them have given up. Our local councellor makes things up as he goes along. I am amazed and stunned by the lack of proper process our councils have. The council regularly does things that are illegal, but not enough people know about the law and it is a major thing to bring them to book. I live in Olypicland! Bloody criminals.

ernest · 28/02/2007 08:09

there's more to it than that tho. I come from NE and was plucked from there to SE at very vunerable age. I never settled or felt happy in SE, but when I was old enough to choose for myself, felt too ostracised from NE, didn't fit in N or S, it wasn't UK is shit, I'm off, but not feeling 'at home' anywhere.
Where you live, did you grow up there, did you move there by choice?

I think a lot has to do with whether or not you have roots, friends, family. That has a big impact on how you feel about living where you do. And provides the motivation to make you want to improve it and serve your community.

MrsSpoon · 28/02/2007 13:04

I agree with HelloBello's post of Tue 27-Feb-07 15:49:12, when we go to Spain for a holiday the kids are welcomed with open arms at every restaurant/cafe we are in, if you want to go for a drink after your meal, the kids are welcomed into the bars too where they usually find a friend or two to play with. Here if you want to go out with kids in tow I find you are mostly stuck with big chain restaurants, Pizza Hut etc, anywhere really nice and you may as well forget it.

MrsSpoon · 28/02/2007 13:05

Meant to add Hellobello, I am in Scotland and this morning witnessed the Customs & Excise men putting on their bullet proof vests, I was a little unsettled to say the least, quite relieved when they got back into their van and drove off, obviously all the action was taking place elsewhere.