Now could you imagine the uproar if the same rule was applied to English speaking Brits........

[fannyannie]

who were moving abroad to live/work...\link{http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6380867.stm} - there'd be an AWFUL lot of people not able to go to live their 'life in the sun' - or whatever if was they had planned..........

but also bear in mind the majority of British expats move to English speaking countries anyway or are moved as an employee of an English speaking business. That isn't the case with migration into the UK where you are not required to find employment ahead of moving.

I don't think brits are lazy abroad regarding language. They would learn foreign languages if the had to but alot of them just don't have to speak anything other than english and most of the locals want to practise their english on us anyway. How many supposed friends turn out to be really wanting free english lessons for themselves or their kids. If english wasn't the international language it would be a different matter.
If, for example every other man/woman on the street in the UK spoke chinese or russian (just as an example) then those lands men wouldn't need to speak english.

"Bit excessive, but OTOH I do rather like the idea of all these English people in Spain being inspected to make sure they are living in a sufficiently Spanish way - that would be fun."

LOL - my thoughts exactly - and there are nearly 1 million British Expats living in Spain .

As for most moving to English speaking countries - yes I suppose in essence that's true - but even in those countries they still like to live in English/British communities....

As for my experience of expat communities - I think that's my business don't you

I ask your experience of expat communities because you have made some sweeping statements about this group of people. Don't expect anyone to take your assertions seriously if you can't or won't back them up.

I would have no problem at all with the same rule being applied to English-speaking expat Brits. That is a matter for the countries where the expats are living to decide upon.

admylin

'How many supposed friends turn out to be really wanting free english lessons for themselves or their kids.'

I am both lol and wincing with recognition here. I only do translations/corrections etc. etc. for good friends now, as I got too fed up with people wanting to use me as an 'English machine'. One of my students once came in, said 'my dad needs this translating for his business' and slapped it down in front of me

Languages just don't have a high status in the UK, in general. They've been made voluntary at GCSE again. University language departments are seriously struggling. I think the general perspective on foreign languages is that they are impossibly hard.

Exactly LucyJu and you'd know the score before you went. If such things put you off you are unlikely to make a success of settling anyway.

Am I the only one who thought this thread was going to be about British people in Britain who can barely string a sentence together?

Interesting statistic on Portugal, Fio. Do you have one on how many British people living in Spain can speak the language? Just curious (not being faceitious)sp?

lol WT - well I suppose it could be really couldn't it..........given that I am often mistaken as the 'foreigner' and DH the Brit

I'm not sure what your gripe is FA. I've never seen an article discouraging anyone from learning the language of their adopted home so why is this report wrong?

As to why children are sent to English speaking schools; When we lived in Indonesia expats were not permitted to go to local schools so there was no choice. Here in W Africa I don't know about rules & regs re local schools but if I sent my dd to the one down the road I would be denying a much-needed place to a local child. As it is, my dd goes to an international school which has about 90% Nigerian children, more than any of the other i/nat schools.

A lot of expat behaviour is determinded by local mores. It is expected that someone who is relatively wealthy lives in a manner fitting to that. Locals frown on expat men wearing shorts in public because according to their ideals, it is inappropriate to their status.

Some expats do have bad attitudes, but there are an equal number, or maybe more, who don't. And the same goes for the local population.

the difference between the UK and other countries though is that English is the most widely spoken language in the world and therefore you are likely to encounter english being spoken in most countries you move to. I think that it is a consideration to make the effort to learn the language of a country you intend living in on a permanent basis.

When I was 9 we moved to South Africa. There was only one school in the country that catered for visually impaired students and therefore I attended it. It was a predominantly Afrikaans speaking school, and it was a boarding school. so I was sent to a school, to stay, all week, where I didn't speak their language and they chose not to speak mine. Although English was taught as part of the curriculum the children/staff had no need to speak it as there were so few english students. So, as an english speaking student I had two choices. I either:

insisted on continuing to speak english in which case I was unlikely to make friends

or I learned to speak Afrikaans and got on and made friends.

I was fluent in Afrikaans within 6 months. Not only fluent to a degree that I could communicate, but to a degree where, within a couple of years, I did all my subjects in Afrikaans, I did Afrikaans as a first not second language, and when I was 16, on "republic day", I was the only english speaking child, from England, but I was the one selected to read the constitution, in Afrikaans.

I don't see why people shouldn't learn the language of a country if they want to live and be accepted there.

I can't imagine moving to another country and not making an effort to try to learn the language, heck whenever we go overseas to a non-English speaking country, even just for holidays, we always try to learn some basics. It's just courteous.

How would we feel if a German (or Japanese, or Finn, or whoever) came up to us in the street here in the UK and tried speaking their language to us?

I've seen some European nationals just ignore tourists who've just launched into speaking English at them. Can't say I don't blame them, how rude!

Just watch 'Living in the Sun'.

Do ANY of those English expats to Spain actually speak Spanish?

Much less eat Spanish food, integrate in the culture, etc.

They must be oh so popular there.

But Expat, I think that the people chosen for those programmes are the ones least likely to suceed. Someone fitting right in and learning the language isn't good tv.

My sister and her family moved to Poland for 2years with her dh job. Within 6 months she was pretty much fluent. She had no intention of depending on other people to interpret for her, especially for day to day life.

There are some extremely undesirable consequences of the ghetto-isation (marginalisation/ alienation) that Prufock alludes to.

I think you need to interpret this policy in the context of recent events. Think this may be the catalyst for it

There wouldn't be one

and I personally think that immigrants to a country should speak the language .. whichever country they are immigrating to

its a good thing

I don't think the misguided lack of effort to 'integrate' (speak the language etc) from the old dears from Blighty who have emigrated to Spain or similar, have posed much of a problem for national security thus far...

Well I've been an expat all over the place. Firstly, Belgium spoke French and Flemish. Then Holland, spoke Dutch which was really difficult as most Dutch want to speak English . Now USA, and learning new words too . I truly believe that you should learn the language of the country you're living in and I'm proud to say that I don't have one English friend over here (yet). Mainly Americans and a few Russians.

"I don't think the misguided lack of effort to 'integrate' (speak the language etc) from the old dears from Blighty who have emigrated to Spain or similar, have posed much of a problem for national security thus far..."

And the women Prufrock talks about earlier are of course repsonsible for waves of terrorism and crime waves....

afaik, those involved in terrorism have actually been English first language speakers.

Pretty outrageous assumption, really.

I'm not against strong influence to help people who are resident here to learn English, but i think blaming non-English speakers for terrorism is a bit much. I think FAs point was about Brits lamenetable track record of learning other languages.

Message withdrawn

That's rather simplifying the point Blu.

Clearly the vast majority of non-English speaking immigrants have no truck with terrorism (I'm picturing here a good friend's very gentle, sweet natured and hospitable mother who came here from the Punjab 25 years ago and speaks no English) - however, a number of educated and thoughtful public policy makers have recently questioned the UK's previous approach to multiculturalism.....they have suggested that perhaps it has provided an environment where the seeds of overt radicalism can grown amongst a very small hard core of disaffected people.

I don't want everybody to pledge alleigance to the flag as per the US - but it would seem that there is a real need to ensure more cohesion in our society.

Fail to see how this is a contentious point.