Now could you imagine the uproar if the same rule was applied to English speaking Brits........

[fannyannie]

who were moving abroad to live/work...\link{http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6380867.stm} - there'd be an AWFUL lot of people not able to go to live their 'life in the sun' - or whatever if was they had planned..........

[Callisto]

"If English is your first language they still require that you have a basic knowledge of French." - only if you're emmigrating to Quebec. Otherwise it is points based for a skilled worker visa ie maximum points for fluent English/French etc. You get extra points for having a level of French but if you don't speak any you can still get in as long as you have enough points for other things - adaptability, education, work experience etc.

Most countries have this sort of points based immigration policy.

[Linnet]

To move to Canada you have to be able to show that you have either a basic, moderate or fluent level of English and French.

If English is your first language they still require that you have a basic knowledge of French.

[Marscentio]

Cali.... FA would have been in Zimbabwe.

[TwoIfBySea]

I think people who want to work in another country must have at least a grasp of the language. We wanted to move to the Netherlands several years ago, well try and learn Dutch here, it is impossible. So we went with the intention of ensuring we could learn as soon as we were settled - it didn't work out thanks to meddling MIL - but we would not have been like those awful Brits who proudly state they have lived in Spain or wherever for 20 years and don't speak one word of Spanish etc.

I speak some French, more Italian and Spanish and a bit of German. Dh speaks German. We can now both speak a bit of Dutch, now we just need the cash to get out of this place! Haha (not quite.)

So it is up to the individual to learn the language, we should not expect another country to lay on translators etc. And I think the Brits abroad are the worst culprits.

[expatinscotland]

Oh, yes, I've had plenty of experience of being an expat .

Fifteen out of my thirty-six years of life and counting, in total, although the past 5 have been here in Scotland, where I sort of spoke the language .

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[handlemecarefully]

And for me it's not just about speaking the language.

[handlemecarefully]

That's rather simplifying the point Blu.

Clearly the vast majority of non-English speaking immigrants have no truck with terrorism (I'm picturing here a good friend's very gentle, sweet natured and hospitable mother who came here from the Punjab 25 years ago and speaks no English) - however, a number of educated and thoughtful public policy makers have recently questioned the UK's previous approach to multiculturalism.....they have suggested that perhaps it has provided an environment where the seeds of overt radicalism can grown amongst a very small hard core of disaffected people.

I don't want everybody to pledge alleigance to the flag as per the US - but it would seem that there is a real need to ensure more cohesion in our society.

Fail to see how this is a contentious point.

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[Blu]

"I don't think the misguided lack of effort to 'integrate' (speak the language etc) from the old dears from Blighty who have emigrated to Spain or similar, have posed much of a problem for national security thus far..."

And the women Prufrock talks about earlier are of course repsonsible for waves of terrorism and crime waves....

afaik, those involved in terrorism have actually been English first language speakers.

Pretty outrageous assumption, really.

I'm not against strong influence to help people who are resident here to learn English, but i think blaming non-English speakers for terrorism is a bit much. I think FAs point was about Brits lamenetable track record of learning other languages.

[alipiggie]

Well I've been an expat all over the place. Firstly, Belgium spoke French and Flemish. Then Holland, spoke Dutch which was really difficult as most Dutch want to speak English . Now USA, and learning new words too . I truly believe that you should learn the language of the country you're living in and I'm proud to say that I don't have one English friend over here (yet). Mainly Americans and a few Russians.

[handlemecarefully]

I don't think the misguided lack of effort to 'integrate' (speak the language etc) from the old dears from Blighty who have emigrated to Spain or similar, have posed much of a problem for national security thus far...

[MrsGoranVisnjic]

There wouldn't be one

and I personally think that immigrants to a country should speak the language .. whichever country they are immigrating to

its a good thing

[handlemecarefully]

There are some extremely undesirable consequences of the ghetto-isation (marginalisation/ alienation) that Prufock alludes to.

I think you need to interpret this policy in the context of recent events. Think this may be the catalyst for it

[juuule]

My sister and her family moved to Poland for 2years with her dh job. Within 6 months she was pretty much fluent. She had no intention of depending on other people to interpret for her, especially for day to day life.

[Callisto]

But Expat, I think that the people chosen for those programmes are the ones least likely to suceed. Someone fitting right in and learning the language isn't good tv.

[expatinscotland]

Just watch 'Living in the Sun'.

Do ANY of those English expats to Spain actually speak Spanish?

Much less eat Spanish food, integrate in the culture, etc.

They must be oh so popular there.

[mm22bys]

I can't imagine moving to another country and not making an effort to try to learn the language, heck whenever we go overseas to a non-English speaking country, even just for holidays, we always try to learn some basics. It's just courteous.

How would we feel if a German (or Japanese, or Finn, or whoever) came up to us in the street here in the UK and tried speaking their language to us?

I've seen some European nationals just ignore tourists who've just launched into speaking English at them. Can't say I don't blame them, how rude!

[wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe]

the difference between the UK and other countries though is that English is the most widely spoken language in the world and therefore you are likely to encounter english being spoken in most countries you move to. I think that it is a consideration to make the effort to learn the language of a country you intend living in on a permanent basis.

When I was 9 we moved to South Africa. There was only one school in the country that catered for visually impaired students and therefore I attended it. It was a predominantly Afrikaans speaking school, and it was a boarding school. so I was sent to a school, to stay, all week, where I didn't speak their language and they chose not to speak mine. Although English was taught as part of the curriculum the children/staff had no need to speak it as there were so few english students. So, as an english speaking student I had two choices. I either:

insisted on continuing to speak english in which case I was unlikely to make friends

or I learned to speak Afrikaans and got on and made friends.

I was fluent in Afrikaans within 6 months. Not only fluent to a degree that I could communicate, but to a degree where, within a couple of years, I did all my subjects in Afrikaans, I did Afrikaans as a first not second language, and when I was 16, on "republic day", I was the only english speaking child, from England, but I was the one selected to read the constitution, in Afrikaans.

I don't see why people shouldn't learn the language of a country if they want to live and be accepted there.

[suedonim]

I'm not sure what your gripe is FA. I've never seen an article discouraging anyone from learning the language of their adopted home so why is this report wrong?

As to why children are sent to English speaking schools; When we lived in Indonesia expats were not permitted to go to local schools so there was no choice. Here in W Africa I don't know about rules & regs re local schools but if I sent my dd to the one down the road I would be denying a much-needed place to a local child. As it is, my dd goes to an international school which has about 90% Nigerian children, more than any of the other i/nat schools.

A lot of expat behaviour is determinded by local mores. It is expected that someone who is relatively wealthy lives in a manner fitting to that. Locals frown on expat men wearing shorts in public because according to their ideals, it is inappropriate to their status.

Some expats do have bad attitudes, but there are an equal number, or maybe more, who don't. And the same goes for the local population.

[fannyannie]

lol WT - well I suppose it could be really couldn't it..........given that I am often mistaken as the 'foreigner' and DH the Brit

[GrumpyOldHorsewoman]

Interesting statistic on Portugal, Fio. Do you have one on how many British people living in Spain can speak the language? Just curious (not being faceitious)sp?

[WanderingTrolley]

Am I the only one who thought this thread was going to be about British people in Britain who can barely string a sentence together?