In The Times today: Blind feminism has hurt our children

[twelveyeargap]

Blind feminism has hurt our children

I actually think the article is quite fair and is not bashing wahm mums at all (of which I am one!!) It amazes me how much of how a child turns out is based on whether or not they were in daycare from an early age. Out of my friends and their kids, I couldn't tell you which one in childcare from their behviour but I can tell who parented them. Fact is we still seem to be missing the point. A child is fundamentally raised by 2 people - its parents and then by the world around it. My mum was a sahm but believe me it wasn't great. She was on her own, she had a child with ahd or similar, no money , resentment of her own childhood, the list goes on. So great my mum was at home with me but in all honesty, I'd have preferred to be in childcare.Issues I've taken on and had to overcome etc have been borne out of an unhappy childhood at points - one I feel could have been avoided with the right attidues/support. The govt spent millions on encouraging parents to work and not claim benefits. Now they are spending millions on encouraging parents to have a better work/life balance with both parents haveing the ability to take a greater part in their childs care. Problem is its too little too late. We have a generation of teenagers who think that all you've got to go to get by in life is enter a reality show - where has the good old work ethic gone???? There was a pride in working hard for your own money when i was a teen - that seems to have gone. People pussyfoot round kids these days scared of doing anything and wonder why lots of them are on asbos. Where has this society gone that tolerates this??? Yes our kids need protecting but if it was my nine year old child setting fire to a car I would not be using the naughty step to combat it. Where has the control gone as a parent - why are we so scared of standing up for our beliefs and how we want to raise our children - why do we allow evey book/so called expert push us into raising them the way they want??? We now find out this is the worst place in the dvpd world to raise a child - is anyone actually shocked by that?? We don't have enough housing, are schools are seriously underfunded, we do not have proper youth facilities/programmes/poor health facilities and parents lose track from one day to the next of what is expected of them!! We have had centuries of conditioning that only women can stay at home to raise children - actually studies prove that a child needs both parents. A society also needs a poplulation of people to work and be cared for one way or the other. I have very little hope of what is in store come my retirement. On the flip side I think some of the comments that followed that article were a little more worrying!!!

Although he may have some valid points, I feel very frustrated by the attitude that women are making choices which harm their children.

I don't feel many women have a choice but to contribute financially to the family. And there aren't enough childminders to fill the needs of all working parents, although this may be ideal.

I think he told me that he had two Phd's. Didn't say what in.

Logical fallacy #1 "The Argument from Authority"

What happened to parents making a choice for the children, and being confident that it was the right choice for them. Everyone seems wrapped up in reading loads of articles about childcare, parenting, watching programmes on nannies showing us "how to do it" (be a proper parent) etc. Why can't we just have confidence in ourselves and our choices ie. working or stay at home etc.

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Why can't I be as clear and concise as 2isplenty???????????????????????

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Obviously I know parents sometimes don't have a choice about staying at home or working, but if the necessity is to work then surely once the child is happy wherever it is, then does it really matter what everyone (society) thinks? Or I am being too simplistic?

I've had better advice from real parents on here in the 6 mths I've been on here than I ever had through the 101 great books/tv progs etc I've watched and its a darn sight cheaper and more rewarding!!!

But it isn't just daycare Counttoten, it's a whole lot of factors, far too numerous to mention and it's certainly unfair to blame daycare for the woes of the world.

Childen are also very robust, they have to be to get through life.

Yes, the status of SAHP's needs to be raised and the value of their work appreciated. Yes, the consumerist/corporate slant of society is very bad for our happiness quotient, not to mention catastrophic for the environment. But OJ blaming feminism and daycare, when the factors are huge, is just silly.

Logical fallacy #2 ? ?The Straw Man? ? ?Real feminism requires us to reevaluate the roles of both men and women.?

Like real feminism doesn?t?

Don't think OJ believes in 'instinct' Pruni.

Countto10 - i've only just discovered MN, and I daren't read too much because I'm neglecting my chidren!!! They are still in their pyjamas! Must leave MN now, but its tough...

But I do love the advice on MN.

I think there is too much pressure to be the testbook parent and raise the textbook child - but what the hell is that? Surely we should be trying to raise our children simply to not steal, work for a living, have manners as well as having faith, confidence etc in themselves and so on. Noone is ever going to get it perfect but surely if a child just knows the difference between right and wrong and chooses right, and knows they are loved is the minimum you should ask for? Or is that too simplistic?? All I know is we have become too materialistic and the focus these days is all wrong.

i think that it is a society problem and what it values. our plan was always to share childcare/ work on a more or less 50/50 basis, employers saw it differently despite policies in place to allow for flexible working.

i don't think my education is wasted staying at home i think i am doing well by my child, i just do not want strangers looking after her when she is so young, particularly after having worked in the 'care industry' for most of my life.
and i feel our children need their fathers involvement as well and both father and child miss out when they are not properly involved. but we get constant stupid attitudes like when dh was the main carer for a few months and it was referred to as 'so when is your babysitting period over?'

Its all very well teaching a child the difference between right and wrong. BUT loads of parents just don't bother and that's where it all goes wrong. For the majority of parents the raising of children is just fine whatever the method, but there are loads of parents out there that just don't care.

The other thing I find frustrating is the assumption that the emotional damage sustained by daycare outweighs any of the benefits of working.

Is is possible that actually mothers who stay at home are naturally more inclined to be carers and therefore (for want of a better word) "better" mothers than those of us who race back to work?

I speak as someone who raced back to work last time (part time) and this time I am champing at the bit to give up full time childcaring after a year. I used to think this was sad, but now I just think 'horses for courses'.

My point is that I believe the outcome for my children will be better attending nursery than spending countless hours playing with the same toys in the same room at home.

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Children still in their pyjamas...How do you break away from MN once you start???

Message to self: Must do some proper childcaring!

I only base my research on watching the telly programmes like Jo whateverhernameis, the nanny. Those parents don't seem to know how to teach their children anything. Is that the same as not caring? A household of yelling parents losing control... I fear I am writing something tht will open a can of worms.

Disagree with a lot of point in the article but I think it is being deliberately provocative.

I heard Oliver James on the Today programme yesterday and thought although his approach was a bit sound-bitish and gimmicky he was actually talking a lot of sense. His main point was that society should pay for either parent to remain at home for three years if they chose to; hardly anti-feminist.

Don't forget that he has a book to promote and that newspaper commissioning editors tend to want articles with an inflammatory slant; if OJ wants to get his book credited he needs to say something controversial.

I personally think daycare is the least of this societies problems and actually a lot of kids out there are better off for it. I know that my ds really misses the place if he's not there for a while and he doesn't view it as somewhere he's sent to as mummy can't be bothered to stay at home (as some people I know think ) he races off and has the time of his life and loves to tell me everything he's been up to etc. I think problems are much wider than that.

Well blind market capitalism did co-opt feminism the 80s (most memorably with the fish on a bike Guinness ad), but feminism has long since been undermined and cut loose as suplus to requirements.