27 year old lawyer commits suicide apparently as a result of stress caused by regularly working 16 hour days.

[Bubble99]

I've never had to work in an organisation that requires this. A few hours sometimes added, by agreement, onto a shift when I worked for the NHS maybe, but nothing like this.. Mr Bubble and I run our own business and often have to work at home on weekends but I imagine this is different because their is nobody expecting us to do it.

I'm sure there are those who will think that - 'If you can't stand the heat etc...'

But does any job really require this amount of hours daily? How much is work and how much is 'being seen to be that last man/woman standing?'

I know a lot of women in these pressure-cooker type jobs often get a lot of grief for leaving 'early' at 6pm to get home to their families. One that I know has told me that others (usually men) in their offices are still at their desks but not actually doing anything.

Have any of you experienced this kind of work culture?

Twinklemegan - you would hope so, but I bet they don't sadly Hence all these people doing silly hours.

Dinosaur - obviously not a great deal since I'm not a high-flying city lawyer, nor would I wish to be. But surely general principles apply - if such important work ends up being done at 4am by someone at the end of a ridiculously long working day then something's very wrong in my very humble opinion. I know that doctors in the NHS are often in this terrible position but that's life and death. Law is just a business.

That is, actually, not the case, edam. Working in the City does demand those hours. If you can't handle it - and lots of people can't - then don't do it.

That is why DH has never been tempted by the headhunter's offers of jobs in London. Yes, the money side sounds fab but what is the point when there is no balance, just wok costant. Even as a really ambitious person he can see no job is worth it. And lets face it at the end of the day law is just that - a job, it is not life or death in 99.9% of cases.

If the senior and managing partners really wanted things to change they could make it happen. But it would mean a drop in their profits and, therefore, their take home pay - so they are very unlikely to change things.

Agree with Dino here.

I think whilst some of these views are the logical sensible views and perhaps how it should be, in practice I don't think they are very realistic views (sadly). As someone said, often businesses are paying huge amounts of money for someone to sell their business (for example) and so they don't want one person to be clocking off at 5pm to pass on to someone else. They want to be able to deal with one person (or one team) when they want to and see it is their right to do so. If the firm doesn't offer this, then they won't get the work.

Also I don't think its a case of bad planning that re-drafting might occur at 4am. It may have taken hours, days, weeks to agree a point and then re-drafting will have to occur.

I agree though, its not logical or sensible or healthy.

Sobernow - that was me, too. I was a phenomenal drinker.

But Dinosaur, like Edam said, it only demands those hours because the companies in question choose to work in that way. Like I said before it's hardly life and death - it's about money, that's all. I do agree though that people must know about the ridiculous macho culture before they take the job so you'd think that those who want a life outside their work wouldn't take the job.

I would just like to point out to all the people who think that sending their kids to private school so they pass their exams are in all likelihood consigning them to several years of this mad drudgery .

I think it also depends what sort of law (or accountancy or ) you are in. A personal lawyer isn't going to be having the same demands made of him/her as a corporate/banking/Restructuring lawyer because the urgency of what is being achieved is usually different.

I used to work in selling insolvent companies. By necessity this would have to be done in a very short time scale hence huge hours to keep a business afloat and sell it on.

Twinklemegan, no one firm or company chooses to work that way, it is just the way that the markets work. I have thought about this one long and hard, and I frankly don't see any way in which it could be changed as long as we have capitalism in the form that we know it.

And quite honestly, if you think people in UK law firms work hard, you should see the sorts of hours that lawyers in the Far East work. Truly shocking.

I went to private school and did very well in my exams then got a good degree. But I wanted nothing to do with the milk-round etc. It's not at all inevitable.

poor chap and poor his family and friends....
that sort of lifestyle is crapola..... it sucks you in and grinds you down. i can understand how you can lose all sense of perspective and of real priorities in a job like that. i used to work 14 hour days regularly and lots of weekends too..... you get used to the adrenaline buzz and become (wrongly) convinced of you indispensibility and importance. v sad.

We need a tongue-in-cheek emoticon, I think .

Dinosaur - I do agree that there would have to be a seachange in the way the worldwide markets etc. work and that this is far-fetched in the extreme. But the fact remains that this is a situation created by greed - plain and simple - so I find it hard to find any sympathy for people who choose to work in these sectors. I do wish that this young lawyer had realised it was just a job and got out while he/she could.

I wish there was "I know that was tongue in cheek but I'm going to respond anyway" emotion.

how long before xenia turns up? this thread is right up her street!

Dh is an insolvency lawyer with an American law firm, and beleive me it isn't poor management that dictates these hours, because of international time differences, deadlines, and negotiations altering contracts over and over, aal nightners are necessary to get documents completed and authorised by strict deadlines.

Who sets the deadlines then?

Well, that's a bit harsh, Twinklemegan.

I think it can be very difficult, at 27, to admit that you've made a huge mistake and that you're really miserable and that you want to do something else. Particularly if, say, your parents are terribly, terribly proud of you.

The client.

The clients and the banks normally set the deadlines

Well, and external bodies like the Takeover Panel...

that was me btw. forgot to change name back after running amok on kittylette's bil twin sex thread

mrsrichardmaddely i mean!