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Original poster

27 year old lawyer commits suicide apparently as a result of stress caused by regularly working 16 hour days.

74 replies

Bubble99 · 14/02/2007 20:51

I've never had to work in an organisation that requires this. A few hours sometimes added, by agreement, onto a shift when I worked for the NHS maybe, but nothing like this.. Mr Bubble and I run our own business and often have to work at home on weekends but I imagine this is different because their is nobody expecting us to do it.

I'm sure there are those who will think that - 'If you can't stand the heat etc...'

But does any job really require this amount of hours daily? How much is work and how much is 'being seen to be that last man/woman standing?'

I know a lot of women in these pressure-cooker type jobs often get a lot of grief for leaving 'early' at 6pm to get home to their families. One that I know has told me that others (usually men) in their offices are still at their desks but not actually doing anything.

Have any of you experienced this kind of work culture?

OP posts:
Original poster
Bubble99 · 14/02/2007 20:53

there is.

I hate my sloppy spelling. Munker, the pedant, is everywhere.

OP posts:
Twinklemegan · 14/02/2007 20:55

I haven't thank god, but my feeling is if many of these people spent less time "networking" in pointless meetings and more time at their desks working then they wouldn't need to do such ridiculous hours. Shift work for the NHS is one thing; useless jobs that earn you pots of money but don't actually achieve anything worthwhile - I wouldn't put up with it myself.

jampot · 14/02/2007 20:55

I personally didnt experience it at my level but one young solicitor where I worked committed suicide, my boss left to be a holiday rep and another boss of mine has now become a teacher. I recall another went off to do surfing or something and another spent some time teaching guitar.

Lizzylou · 14/02/2007 20:55

God, yes....I was always in the belief that getting the job done was the main thing, and I normally worked fast,(so I could go home) but there were others in my office who would hang around for hours so that they'd look good. Thats why I am glad that I am a SAHM now, altho 16hr days sometimes would seem like a holiday!

Kbear · 14/02/2007 20:56

yes, although I'm not a lawyer. Where I work the culture is exactly that. I have known women who are 6 months pregnant to work nearly all night as a client demands. The City is like that, the money is good but the demands are high.

Very very sad about that man, shame he didn't just leave and get another job and he probably worked so hard to get there. I've seen many young lawyers under extreme pressure. Some just can't handle it. So sad.

Overtiredmum · 14/02/2007 20:57

Bubble, I work for an american corporate law firm and yes, unfortunately, there are plenty of lawyers who work 16 hours plus a day, although it is not continous, they may have to do it for a couple of weeks and then maybe not again for a couple of months, just depends on the area of law etc.

ComeOVeneer · 14/02/2007 20:59

I saw this headline on the paper in Waitrose this afternoon, and it made my heart lurch. Checked it to see if it was anyone I know. I think sseveral of you are familiar with the fact my dh is a lawyer for a big firm in the City and as such does hours like this ona regular basis. He is still at work as I type. The fabulous 3 course valentines dinner I was going to do tonight is stored in the fridge (hopefully will be alright tomorrow) and I am having pistachio nuts and red wine for supper

VeniVidiVickiQV · 14/02/2007 20:59

Bully Tech for a "Pedants Corner"

My last job was really stressful. Not so much in the last role I was doing, but the one just before I was promoted.

I would get to work at 8.30am, and quite often still be at work at 7.30-9pm. The thing was, during the day, the interruptions from folk who were too damned stupid/lazy/corrupt/ignorant to find things out/do something for themselves were phenominal.

I could get 5 times as much done in an hour on my own than I could during the day. The pressure to get stuff done and meet targets whilst dealing with a less than scrupulous boss was immense. I would never have topped myself over it though.

That said, a work colleague killed himself a few months after I started working there, and work pressures were blamed for that ( his family claimed it was all down to work but we were aware of other issues at home...its a long and sorry story).

Ive never understood how someone could let a job get so bad that you'd top yourself though.

Twinklemegan · 14/02/2007 20:59

Absolutely Lizzilou. I know I'm lucky as I'm in the public sector and am only contracted to do a 37 hour week (although many of us do a lot more to get the work done due to lack of resources - grrr!). But my motto has always been "get to work, work solidly, do a good efficient job, get the work done, go home". Unlike some colleagues who "get to work, spend hours on the phone on things that could be dealt much more quickly, try to find paperwork in the mountain on their desk, go to several meetings, make sure they're the last to leave".

FrayedKnot · 14/02/2007 21:00

A friend of mine had to leave a job like this due to depression - combination of hellish hours - regualrly working 14 hour plus days and in a horrible, back-biting culture.

City law firm.

ComeOVeneer · 14/02/2007 21:00

Overtiredmum (being nosey here) which one do you work for? DH is also with an American firm in the City.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 14/02/2007 21:01

I should add that I am definitely not a lawyer, or worked in the legal profession.

Dinosaur · 14/02/2007 21:03

I used to do these sorts of hours and I found it hugely stressful.

It is all work, believe me. You end up having to do really intricate drafting, on contracts with millions or even billions riding on them, at 4 a.m. when you've had no proper sleep for days.

It's very heavy. I really don't want the DSs to end up doing anything like it.

I lived on adrenalin, fags and booze, and thought I wasn't doing myself any harm because I used to work out frantically at the gym when I did have time.

Hulababy · 14/02/2007 21:03

Dh is really lucky. He is a solicitor, but not in a London firm. He is a pretty big, local and very repuatble firm. His firm recognise that long hours don't always mean best productivity or income for the firm. Dh gets to work normal hours and has a great work life balance right now. Despite this he ihas quickly risen up the ranks getting promotions and salary rises, in some cases more than peers working longer hours who are not as efficient with their time.

Original poster
Bubble99 · 14/02/2007 21:05

I went to see Oliver James and others do a talk on this whole issue a while ago.

I like Oliver James, BTW, he now seems to get shunned as a 'meeja psych,' but I think he talks a lot of sense a lot of the time.

Before the days of email and even fax people couldn't get instant info that rrequired action. Telephone? Yes, but not the total uregency of work that needs to be done NOW, as it seems to be these days.

Letters were written and there was then a civilised couple of days before replies were expected. Happy and sane days...

OP posts:
Hulababy · 14/02/2007 21:05

I think it must be very tough for those people working for firms where night working is required, because of time delays, etc.

Twinklemegan · 14/02/2007 21:05

Dinosaur - IMO that is a sign of exceedingly bad planning and management at the firm in question.

Overtiredmum · 14/02/2007 21:06

COV work for a firm called Skadden (I won't bore you with their full title!!) based in Canary Wharf

Hulababy · 14/02/2007 21:06

Bubble - Dh insists that e-mails and fax should be dealt with in the same manner as letters, unless they truely are urgent - so he scans them as they arrive just to make sure, and then deals with them as he would a letter.

Kbear · 14/02/2007 21:07

But when you're charging what the City firms charge, the client says "jump" the lawyer has to say "how high".

Wheelybug · 14/02/2007 21:07

Comeoveneer - I think oyou typed the post I was aobut to.

DH is a corporate lawyer in big city firm - 16 hours is sometimes a good day. 12 hours is a 'normal' (by no means long) day. It sucks.

I worked in a potentially similar type job (as an accountant though) but gave up as couldn't stand it. This means I, mostly, understand why the job requires these sorts of hours but its not great.

Kbear · 14/02/2007 21:07

Hula - I want to work for your DH. !

Dinosaur · 14/02/2007 21:11

Twinklemegan - what do you know about it?

Twinklemegan · 14/02/2007 21:12

Bubble - that is so true. I work as an advisor on heritage issues so deal with lots of environmental consultants and the like preparing planning submissions. Over the last few years I have noticed a huge increase in the number of people who, for example, ring up late on a Friday afternoon wanting a response before the end of the day. Or who send letters asking for complex information with a ridiculously short timescale. The funny thing is once the onus is back on them, perhaps to provide more information, it's rarely quite so urgent . I adopted the motto a few years ago "your lack of planning is not my emergency".

Hulababy - I would have expected that if night working is needed due to time zone differences then the firms would operate a shift pattern like in industry? Otherwise it's just mad.

edam · 14/02/2007 21:14

I don't think the job does demand those hours, though. Oh, I know the individuals doing those jobs 'have' to work like that or they'd be sacked or overlooked. But the people who run these companies don't have to run them like that. They choose to. If there's too much work for people to do in a normal working day, they need to employ more people. Or reorganise how they work.