Passport checks considered for pregnant NHS patients

[LurkingHusband]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37621239

Pregnant patients could have to prove they are eligible for free NHS treatment by showing ID such as a valid passport, under plans being considered by one London hospital.
St George's says the checks would help tackle health tourism and would only be for non-urgent patients - emergency cases would get automatic care.
^It says such a move is in line with what guidelines recommend.
But critics say the checks could be potentially dangerous.^
St George's says it has a duty to use resources wisely, as well as provide care and treatment to patients requiring the hospital's services. The hospital has a high number of patients from overseas who are not eligible for NHS treatment.
The government said a pilot was a good idea and it would be keen to see the results.

(contd)

It is possible to precis the story as "The only thing worse than a foreigner, is a poor foreigner".

Ahhh, need to correct myself slightly. You are covered on those visas if you have paid the health care surcharge of £200/year.

NHS, not IHS.

NATIONAL health service, not INTERNATIONAL health service.

and I moved abroad for a few years with my job, came back to UK for a week to visit friends and relatives, had a minor accident, went to hoz and had to pay for my treatment even though I am British, NI number and working here etc etc.

so yes, fees should be paid.

Visitors to this country always should pay for NHS treatment - beforehand if it's non-urgent, and via card payment or their insurance before they leave hospital otherwise. Just as we would have to if we travelled, really.

I am in favour of weeding out the health tourists,but in reality I can see it will cause all sorts of problems. If everyone that required hospital treatment,or attending A and E had to provide proof that they were actually entitled to free care,I strongly suspect that the wrong individuals will be targeted,i.e. the weak and vulnerable among us. I can imagine that old Mrs. Smith,who is 85 years old,riddled with arthritis and developing dementia will be the 'target',not someone from Nigeria ,for instance,who has just stepped off the plane at Heathrow.

Except that doesn't happen Janey. I'm in Oz, to get free treatment you need to produce your Medicare card. If you haven't got one, you will be billed. It's that simple.

Yes I know what you mean Janey

Living in Germany I turned up at A&E with my 6 year old (German born, German speaking with the local accent which pro was relevant) white with pain with an ankle that was obviously broken - had nothing but my car keys and an ice pack on me as had panicked a bit and the accident happened on a local playing field.

He was treated (and tbh a damn sight more quickly and efficiently than the NHS can manage) and I was just asked to bring his health card to the follow up appointment the next day.

Patients needing urgent care might be turned away in America (and I believe they are) but it need not be that way in a more humane health service set up.

I do think the whole way the NHS is funded needs to be rethought and modelled on a first world country other than the USA - many European countries, or Canada or Australia offer more humane yet sustainable models.

Atm in the UK checking eligibility is a fool's errand as people are simply asked to give their word or to provide documents which are irrelevant - having a passport doesn't make you eligible and not having one, or having one from another country, doesn't make you ineligible, as many people have said.

does everyone who qualifies for an EHIC card in the UK also qualify for NHS treatment? If so everyone could just apply for that (mine took a week to arrive) and then that could be shown when, quite rightly, asked for.

Everyone who qualifies for a UK EHIC qualifies for NHS treatment by definition, but at the same time I imagine that it is possible to qualify for NHS treatment without being able to obtain an EHIC card (eg asylum seekers).

This is troubling, because NHS entitlement is by residency!!! not nationality.

And they're asking for passports? that's discrimination as that tells you nothing at all about NHS eligibility

You can be British and be a "health tourists" - there are ex pats guilty of this!
You can be an other national and be a UK resident and totally eligible for NHS treatment, but not have a British passport

CHECKING NHS USERS PASSPORTS IN NO WAY CHECKS THEIR NHS ELIGIBILITY !!!!!!!

Thinking about this a bit more - I would imagine that in the case of the Nigerian gangs/pregnant women - in fact anyone without an EU passport - visa details/conditions of stay will be displayed in their passport ...if they have eg a 3 month visa they will not be eligible for care....
I know that doesn't catch the ex-pats or EU citizens but it is a cheap and easy way of stopping at least some of the fraud. Especially in the cases like in the story - where it is apparently organised fraud...
Checking everyone's eligibility and introducing cards etc may well not be cost effective...but this would be...

Of course, hospital should check passport. Employment agencies ask you to bring in your passport, ffs.

Another connected problem of course is that airlines are not supposed to allow women onto their flights if they look 7 or 8 months pregnant. But for some reason all airlines have become sloppy over this check.

Also, pregnant women (approx 6 months) deliberately travel early to the UK in order to have babies here.

Perhaps it's time we introduced ID cards.

I remember about 20 yrs ago the govt of the day were wanting to introduce ID cards. I was thoroughly against, but now I am for them. It could only be seen as an aid though, because I imagine they are easily faked, even the biometric ones.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/539328/In-Country_information_leaflet_-_July_2016.pdf

Of course, hospital should check passport.

Check them for what?
the only think my passport tells you is my name, DOB and nationality, none of which are what qualify me for NHS treatment, because NHS eligibiliy is based on residency not nationality

What this will do in practice is put women off seeking health early for fear of discrimination until their condition gets worse and harder (and more expensive) to fix

Hospitals like st Georges which are specialised in treating high risk pregnancies have always been targeted by overseas patients

Also those hospitals nears LHR. NHS numbers are loaned by African women (with UK citizenship) to friends who live outside of the UK. Not sure how they explain why they did not attend antenatal, but it happens ....

In the 90s I worked for a while in a hospital which is very near Gatwick

Indeed. I've worked in 4 major London hospitals. We became aware of visitors from overseas being brought in by ambulance. On examination it was found that the patient was seriously ill - example: several coronary arteries blocked or half-blocked, urgent need for bypass surgery to replace damaged arteries in the heart.

This put the hospital in a quandry. The person had risked his life to fly to London to stay with relatives with the intention of faking a collapse in the street close to his hospital of choice, ambulance called and patient "found out" that he needed bypass surgery. Hospital could not risk sending him home and were forced to perform the op with post-op care, which took months.

Not pregnancy but related to misuse of public funds.

CHECKING NHS USERS PASSPORTS IN NO WAY CHECKS THEIR NHS ELIGIBILITY !!!!!!!

It does not matter. It would formalise a two-step process.

What this will do in practice is put women off seeking health early for fear of discrimination until their condition gets worse and harder (and more expensive) to fix

Which women would that be Yuck? Why would anyone be worried of discrimination? Agains who?

Well you can't go to the states and expect free health care why should we offer it.

It does not matter. It would formalise a two-step process

A 2 step process where white british passport holders aren't in the group followed up (even though being british doesn't = eligible, they could be ex pats)

and "others" are put forward for further checks

I have no issue with eligibility checks.

I have issues with it being passport though given it's not compulsory to hold one. And if you are dual nationality you many hold the other nationality passport but are still eligible for NHS treatment.

yuk British passport holders probably won't be followed up - doesn't matter what colour skin they have/ethnic background
US citizens, Australians, Canadians,Nigerians, South Africans etc etc -whether black or white...would need proof of eligibility.
Yes some would slip through the net - but less than what happens currently, for little effort/expense.
You seem to think it is a racist thing ... I don't think it is...
(I would be as equally behind the checks if there was a gang organising a stream of white... I don't know - Russians? coming to use the NHS....)
As for the ex-pats - my friend's parents live in Spain. Her dad was recently seriously ill and treated in a Spanish hospital ...but if he had come back to the UK I don't think it would have been that bad - he worked paying NI and Tax in the UK for 50 yrs - including in the armed forces -so he has put something in the system - which is different from someone who has put nothing in the system and instead is lining the pockets of criminals ...

put women off seeking health early for fear of discrimination until their condition gets worse and harder

Which women, Yuck? And why would a 2-step process discriminate in favour of white women? What are you saying. Sight of passport and NI card would be a start, nothing wrong with checks. It is public purse money afterall. If passport shows one surname but NI number is against another surname ...... could be her married name, or could be an NI number belonging to someone else that she is borrowing.

What proportion of UK residents hold a passport??