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Original poster

Remainers and Leave regretters

55 replies

Niamer · 26/09/2016 16:25

For those of you still with Brexit Blues, like me, Vote for Europe offers some hope. It encourages tactical voting to have pro- EU parliamentary candidates elected. The Witney by-election is the one to watch!
www.voteforeurope.org.uk/2016/09/25/280/

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twofingerstoGideon · 27/09/2016 16:34

Quite aware of that Enthusiasm. This is the major problem with Brexit. Binary choice with no-one even knowing what one of the choices entailed.

I am aware that more voted to leave than remain, but it was a narrow victory and I am not prepared to 'accept' something that I think will do our country no good. If you are, that's up to you.

The referendum was advisory.

Original poster
Niamer · 27/09/2016 16:42

Remainers are so often accused of whinging and doom-mongering. Well yes, there is SO much to whinge about even before article 50 has been triggered and I make no apology for complaining, as I did not vote for the problems we are seeing, or more importantly encourage others to vote for them.

But I am open to hearing what we have to look forward to after we've left the EU, if there are any happy Leave voters willing to share. I have heard a lot about "sovereignty", but what else is good about Brexit? TIA.

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EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/09/2016 17:22

it's about a democratic vote not what I wanted personally I was on the losing side but I would rather live in a democracy than not

there is no way it will be blocked in parliament because it was advisory that was not on the ballot paper. The majority of MP's were foolish enough to not see the risk of supporting a referendum on the EU they won't be foolish enough to try and block it, it would be political sucide

Of course there are a few that will claim they will let's see how far they go

Peregrina · 27/09/2016 17:48

But does having a democratic vote mean that all discussion must be stifled? That seems to be a suggestion, but to me, that is dictatorship.

lalalonglegs · 27/09/2016 17:48

Unfortunately, enacting it would likely be economic suicide. I'd sooner a few MPs fell on their swords than we saw the end of inward investment and much academic co-operation.

I was a reluctant remainer but, having seen how the racists have felt emboldened since the result and the sheer absurdity of some of the Leavers' claims for the future (together with the utter cynicism of the Leavers campaign's rolling back of promises), there's no way I want more of that.

Peregrina · 27/09/2016 17:53

it was advisory that was not on the ballot paper.
Nor were the questions about money for the NHS, taking back control, or sovereignity and curbing immigration. So, if it's OK to assume that Brexit means Brexit actually means curb EU immigration and only that, why shouldn't it mean, come to your senses and realise that an advisory ballot means we can step back from committing economic suicide.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/09/2016 17:55

No of course not

We need to know what is going on the Tories are no doubt arguing themselves before they can even get around to putting proposals forward and in the meantime have thrown the opposition Grammar schools and because the opposition is so ridiculously unprofessional they have not challanged them and have taken the bait Hmm

I would like a vote on proposals but then where does it stop will we be given one proposal and I really can't see the rest of Europe being that patient

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/09/2016 18:04

But what is said in campaigning is just that its campaigning it what's can be worked on, changed and so on

Where the vote was advisory, not a bit, or slightly or might be. Was it ever mentioned in the campaigning or before or on the ballot paper

twofingerstoGideon · 27/09/2016 19:48

Was it ever mentioned in the campaigning

Yes. It was.

twofingerstoGideon · 27/09/2016 19:58

I really cannot get my head around people saying it would be 'undemocratic' to refuse to blindly follow Brexit to its bitter end, especially when there's no consensus about what Brexit actually is. Do you really think the country should commit economic suicide because 'the people (including racist bigots) have spoken'?

The whole thing is ridiculous. In fact, I'm beginning to think there should be a public enquiry into the way the campaigning and subsequent referendum was conducted. I sincerely hope there won't be another one in my lifetime.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/09/2016 20:13

There could be one there has been two that my mum has been able to vote in

If it was sold to the public as only advisory why bother I really don't remember it being spoken about in tv or radio debates I read about it

The answer is still the same the majority wanted to leave knowing that is breaking away from the EU but how that would work out was to be seen its was a gamble the majority were willing to take

How can that be ignored

Nightofthetentacle · 27/09/2016 20:26

I wonder if rather than a true belief in 'democracy', it is a little of the sunk costs fallacy - "we went to the trouble of asking people and they said 'yes', but even though there is no way of making it happen without constitutional crisis, we must plough on!".

There may, of course, be a way of making Brexit not economic suicide a success, but I dunno how (and many finer and more dedicated minds than mine dunno how, either). Current list of (many) of the hurdles here and also on excellent EURef threads.

Anyway, to the OP - I like the idea of tactical voting, any organised action seems worthwhile to me. More generally, I feel like internet grumbling and reading all of the Brexit stuff is insufficient now - twould be nice to engage in some pro EU stuff in RL. To ponder...

Original poster
Niamer · 27/09/2016 20:45

twould be nice to engage in some pro EU stuff in RL

Yes I agree, Nightofthetentacle. There are plenty of FB groups with links to local demos, groups etc, but there's still a long way to go. Where I am - small market town leaver territory, I cannot decide if Brexit is the elephant in the room or just forgotten about!

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Nightofthetentacle · 27/09/2016 21:00

YY Niamer. I even wondered about - horrors - joining a political party. Although being of stoutly apolitical stock, I am unsure what this actually means, and whether it would feel actiony enough in practice.

I think I am trying to guess what the 2026 version of me would look back and regret not doing now.

Original poster
Niamer · 27/09/2016 21:27

Hehe Night; I never dreamt I would go on any kind of a political march but needs must ! Went to the Sept March for Europe and enjoyed it. So yes, joining a political party may be next step for me too. I am cross with myself for being in my own little world pre referendum and taking it for granted that good sense would prevail :(.

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Peregrina · 27/09/2016 22:12

The answer is still the same the majority wanted to leave knowing that is breaking away from the EU but how that would work out was to be seen its was a gamble the majority were willing to take. How can that be ignored

Because people were not in full possession of the facts, and were fed downright lies.

Should Parliament govern the country on a gamble?

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/09/2016 22:21

Then there has to be a campaign against the lies why isn't there an MP campaigning for this

there should never have been a referendum it was only to keep DC safe but the public were given the choice

lalalonglegs · 27/09/2016 22:31

Chuka Ummuna is campaigning against it.

I agree the referendum should never have happened.

Peregrina · 27/09/2016 22:41

why isn't there an MP campaigning for this

Why not indeed? Tory Remain MPs seem to have been whipped into singing Brexit means Brexit. A spineless bunch, IMO.

NameChanger22 · 27/09/2016 22:42

I'm a left-wing remain voter. I was a remain voter from the word go and I have no regrets. I did my best to persuade everyone I know to vote remain.

Nobody knows exactly how things are going to play out. However, I've been woken at night several times by my sense of doom since the referendum. I trust my instincts, they are usually accurate. I think many people will suffer, but especially the poor, they will be punished the most.

Doobigetta · 27/09/2016 22:42

Thanks for posting this, Niamer. I'm a member of Vote for Europe as well, and keep feeling bad that I'm not doing much more than shouting at the telly.
And no, we aren't going to shut up and accept that "the people have spoken". That's a remarkably narrow and stupid interpretation of democracy even by Leave standards. You lot didn't STFU for decades, why the hell would we now when we know what we're about to lose?

ChariotOfFire · 28/09/2016 07:48

I really don't understand the logic of 'the people have spoken, so stop whinging and get used to it.' If we really believed that we have to accept all legislation, we'd never have any progress of any sort. Laws are repealed and amended regularly; why not this referendum? Or does the absolute insistence that 'the people have spoken' really mean 'we're scared that the people might riot'?

Original poster
Niamer · 28/09/2016 08:05

Lovely to find so may people of the same mindset. The question is what else can we all do?

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Peregrina · 28/09/2016 08:06

'we're scared that the people might riot'?

YES. (Shouting on purpose here.)
And, we don't want to split the Tory party - in the end, this is more important to us than what you plebs in the north and west think.

twofingerstoGideon · 28/09/2016 08:22

It's interesting that the 'scared the people might riot' fear doesn't extend to the 48% of people who DID NOT want this! We've been more or less ignored since the vote and there are 16 million of us.

I'm not advocating rioting, of course, but it's odd that there seems to be a fear of one group rioting but not the other.