whats your thoughts on John Reid letting criminals escape prison?

[feelingstressed]

I know this is quite difficult because obviously the serious criminals need to be behind bars rather than the petty theives etc.

I was a bit peed off about the guy that downloading child porn getting off though.

What is the answer guys? It is so frustrating.

downloaded i meant

Just a thought- I'm no big fan of the bloke, but as someone ointed out (was it on Question Time? perhaps- maybe the paper) John Reid inherited the severe prison place deficit, and one of the first things he did was annouce new building: so he cant personally be blamed for the place shortage. HOWEVER not jailing that chap who downloaded the porn- seems very wrong indeed. But if a more violent peson got the place- not sure. Shouldn't be a decision that had to be amde, and the Labour Partyhas seriously messed up on this one (though ultimately I guess its the criminals- i mean, they could actually behave? ah ha what a ridiculous idea)

just a shame it will probably affect us mere mortals while those with chauffeur driven cars and protection will no doubt escape any criminals roaming the streets

I can see why he's done what he's done but for this to work, surely our probation service and the people who supervise these criminals in the community will suddenly have a massively increased workload....oh, hang on, wasn't there a problem with them not monitoring the prisoners out on probation properly recently. Oh yes there was.

Just STINKS of something not thought through properly. Again.

The answer is to use disused military bases as prisons. We already imprison a largewr % of our population than most comparable countries.
You can take that one of two ways, either that we use prison too much, or that culturally we do more bad stuff.
I think it's both.

Labour is a pisron of it's doctrine that it was going to reduce prison population, and in a typical new Labour way, it assumed success, so made no plans for it they failed.

Letting criminals out is not the answer, cheaper prisons are.

Also we grotesquely underfund rehabilitation programmes. These are not sexy to either tories of Labour.

Also the failings of the so-called "education" system rear their ugly heads heart as well. There is a ver high correlation between illiteracy and being in prison.

DC you're righta bout illiteracy but it goes far deepr- lots of people with SN are at risk of arrest because of their behaviours (see here - these people work with police/ families / youth offend teams to address this issue}; ythis needs action because there are better ways of dealing with this part of the prison population imo.

Bring back hanging

yeah and you can apologise to the Mums of those who are hung via a miscarraige of justice.

Capital punishment not something i believe in personally.

Well, let's look at what he's actually done. He wrote to judges reiterating existing guidelines (says he). It is the judges who have taken umbrage at a politician daring to tell them what to do and are releasing unsavoury characters to make a point. I only hope no child is molested as a result of this point-scoring exercise.

We don't need more prisons. We need to reassess who we imprison and the purpose it serves. There are numerous punishments available to judges and prison is the ultimate. Do we really need to imprison people for failing to pay council tax? Or other "victimless" crimes? Prison really should be there for those criminals who are a danger to the public or whose crimes are so awful that no other punishment will suffice. Obviously it is also available to those who commit "victimless" crimes when they show that other punishments have not managed to rehabilitate them.

Well personally i think if you hand the rapist's, peodo's and killers then good luck to you.
I would apply for the job, and sleep at night.

what about miscarriages of justice?

bringing back hanging would not solve anything, it certainly wouldnt deter 'rapits, paedos and murderers' - it hasnt worked in the USA has it.

Bringing back hanging to free up prison cells is quite draconian dont you think???

I do think that it is all a bit 'media frenzy' tbh.

Although I have to admit it made me chuckle in a weird way that the Royal editor of the News of the World was jailed for 4 months - a real threat to the public!! and the porn downloader was set free

oh and hanging them doesn't actually help, they need more space whilst on death row anyway!

As freckle said, he personally hasn't actually let criminals escape. He has advised the judges that they should perhaps re-think who they put in prison.
The judge who let this guy (who downloaded child porn) off was obviously IMO, being petty, and thinking "i know i'll get myself in the papers, and show John Reid up as someone who cannot do his job". Especially in light of the fact that the person who worked for the NOTW got jailed for tapping phone calls at Buckingham Palace.
There are people in prison who shouldn't be - i don't think people who don't pay their council tax, or rob their employers of a few hundred pounds should be jailed, nor should the mother who steals a loaf of bread to feed her kids because her tax credits have been stopped. They should do community service. I think this was the point John Reid was trying to get across to the judges.
He has inhertied a system that's a mess, criminals who have escpaed, and a justice system that's all to pot. If he has made this recommendation to judges and they choose to interpret it their own way, then they are to blame, not him surely?

I'm against the death penalty because like crunchie I see the practical issues as overwhelming.
That's not to say, that there's not a number of people I wouldn't plug into a chair tomorrow.

A huge % of those who do crimes for which you'd kill them aren't those for whom deterrence has any real effect. They may be religious loonies for whom death is an actual goal, people who are somewhere in the dark boundary between mental illness and evil, or those who kill in some fit of rage, where consequences aren't examined in detail.

Where it would have a good and useful effect is in driving offences. Driving at 70 in a 30 mph zoen and hitting someone ought to be classed as murder, but becuase it would mean too many Daily Mail readers being banged up, you get a £50 quid fine and an email saying that you are naughty.

this story made me that poor puddytats dh got a custodial sentence

There was a point, not so long ago, that John Reid was considered a strong candidate for leader of the Labour Party. Am I cynical to think that the best way to 'tarnish' a promising political future is to put someone in charge of a disastrous department?

I am horrified that in the week people got a cistodial sentence for phone tapping, two paedophiles were let off with a suspended sentence!

What the hell is all that about???

It reminds me of when David Blunkett said that the police would no longer be investigating breakins and then ordered an investigation of someone breaking in to Prince Willaims birthday party a week later. What they should say is that these things don't apply to those of them who are better than us mere mortals.

why don't they take a look at women's prisons to free up some space?

i bet most women there are inside for petty offences like shop lifting or prostitution

are they a danger to society? or would they be better off at home, looking after their children doing community service instead and freeing up prison spaces for violent criminals /pornographers etc who need to be behind bars for the rest of our safety.

I just feel for puddytats in the midst of all this. It must be tearingher in half.

Not a bad idea about the womens prisons.

I am a criminologist and therefore spend time discussing such issues with the students which I teach. I am always fascinated in the diversity of the comments, MN is no different!!!