Government funded Muslim group: Women should not be allowed to

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Women should not be allowed to travel more than 48 miles without a male chaperone, says British Muslim group.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/women-should-not-travel-more-than-48-miles-without-a-male-escort/

I'm sure many Muslims find this ridiculous and outrageous but there are probably some families who buy into this controlling, sexist culture. I'd imagine being part of the local community, Muslim families have to play along with these fundamentalist views. These families also need protection from the fascist Sharia movement. How can a group like this get government funding? Is there no political will to tackle this growing stone-age Islamist thinking For heavens sake .

And yes to what the Manatee is saying about women's rights being fragile. Women have only had any kind hind of equality for a tiny fraction of human history, a couple of generations. We could easily lose it again in another couple of generations. When my grandmother was born, women didn't have the right to vote. Imagine if your granddaughter lost the right to vote.

If you ask me, cultural reptilian and identity politics together pose a serious threat to women's rights - perhaps the most serious since women actually acquired any rights. It's so easy to use the 'well it's their culture' argument to excuse sexism, or justify sexism by claiming that some group is more oppressed than women and therefore if you try and stop them behaving in ways that are harmful to women you are oppressing them too.

Either we believe in universal rights or we don't.

Cultural relativism, not reptilian I'm not a David Icke fan.

Agree with manatee both are massively eroding women's rights in the name of being "inclusive" and "progressive"

I've got to the stage where I feel I've had it with a lot of this. Lots of very stupid rules governing lives that should be free. It's not inclusive, not progressive. They just seem to come out with another load of cods every week. They must get brain ache trying to think up these idiotic bloody rules. No mixed swimming lessons, withdrawing kids from music, wearing odd stuff, not doing this that or the other because it's forbidden. I'd have smoke coming out of my ears before a week was ended if I had to follow all those rules which seem to be constantly mutable.

The ones that seem to come out with the oddest guff come from specific regions and cultures.

These are the type of places where the elders can rule that a young woman be kidnapped, raped and set alight for the 'crime' of facilitating a friends elopement.

Just as we cannot begin to understand or explain this, we should not allow the cultural interpretation of religious laws to be laid down as Gospel (excuse the pun). We need to educate, educate, educate and yes, say 'Not here mate, this is the uk and we don't so/say/act like that'.

Funnily enough, Sport, I've always said that I'd last one minute these days in the country where my Muslim relatives originate from. Jail or spontaneously combust.

Great comments from everyone. We should stop all religious "tolerance" where it's actually thinly disguised subjugation of women. I've seen schoolgirls unable to join in sports because they're swathed head to toe in layers of fabric. Little girls taught to cover their bodies and therefore can't play physical games - that's plain wrong.

It's all a load of very rude word beginning with w.

Remember the Trojan horse school where the girls were made to stand in a queue for rides and then give their places to the boys at the last minute? Or that girls were made to sit at the back of the class?

Anyone who thinks "that could never happen here" is being a bit daft - it already is. I fear that my granddaughters will have fewer rights than me and it's a horrible thought.

YoungGirl I remember the Trojan Horse schools - there were a few of them not far from me. The stories that came out were shocking, so I can only imagine what wasn't revealed.

For years those schools were allowed to quietly put gender discrimination measures in place, under the guise of religious practice. We've got to start challenging religion where it conflicts with equal rights for all.

Equality is a precious and fragile thing and one that is still in the process. Denying it to anyone in the grounds of sufferance of a religion is the wrong path. We need it to be enshrined at the heart of everything we do.

I hadn't heard about the story of the girls being made to give up their turn on the rides to the boys. How cruel to do that to any child. It gives totally the wrong message.

Why 48 miles? What's so magic about that distance?

Why 48 miles

IIRC it's something to do with a journey of three days' walk.

But I think the only civilised response is 'who gives a fuck?'

In my lifetime, women were not allowed a mortgage or a bank account; only recently have we legally acknowledged rape in marriage.

I am absolutely sick of the mysoginist virtue signallers of both sexes chin-stroking at this sort of bollocks instead of guffawing and shouting 'on your bike, mate.'

We did not come this far to be sent back centuries by ball-less liberals who are more afraid of being called the R word than upholding equality for women.

Thanks Fanak

Thats mad nobody goes and walks 48 miles anyway, just shows how bonkers they really are.

Women with any sense should just ignore completely and when asked go "Ha, ha it's a really good joke, I didn't think you could possibly mean it as it's so ridiculous"

'I am absolutely sick of the mysoginist virtue signallers of both sexes chin-stroking at this sort of bollocks instead of guffawing and shouting 'on your bike, mate.''

Yeah!!

I think that Freedom of Speech is a very important right and needs to be protected.

Surely, we cannot say 'We have freedom of speech, but certain orthodox groups are not allowed to have it'?

Nevertheless, cdtaylornats post of Sun 08-May-16 08:39:53
raises a very important point:

How do you feel about Jews being told they cannot eat pork, or Catholics being told they can't use contraception, or everyone in Northern Ireland being refused abortion because the churches don't like it, or Christian B&B owners being told they must let gays share a room.

I totally get that Jews/Catholics etc are being told to either do or don't certain things - and it is the individual's decision to either obey or not. However, they cannot be forced and can seek address if somebody tries to force them.

Then there is the freedom to either do or not do things, such as abortion, but also renting out the room. There it seems very well possible for the state to intervene.

Where does the boundary lie?

It's a difficult one TopPony

On the one hand we have the woman forced to wear high heels winning the right to wear flats, same as her male colleagues - brilliant! But on the other hand we have little girls wearing headscarves and long clothes in school. They're so young, they just do what their parents tell them. We have to take steps such as making school uniform rules tighter, with no concessions for religions. The argument "but it's against my religion to do that" shouldn't be allowed in cases where the state rules that the religion is insisting on behaviour that's against existing laws of the land, e.g. equal rights for all regardless of gender & sexuality. Equal rights for all regardless of religion has to be limited to private behaviour that doesn't conflict with the laws of the land, e.g. can't eat certain foods.

I agree we need complete secularity in the education system and throughout the public sector. I think that France has that part correct.

As a PP said, freedom of speech is not absolute in this country and never has been. Certain statements have always - quite rightly - fallen within the remit of criminal law. Anti-Semitic or otherwise racist behaviour rightly constitutes hate speech. Same with homophobic or disablist statements. When women are the target, however, it all falls apart. We are okay with it and even some women defend the rights of people to use misogynistic hate speech on human rights grounds. I don't believe this is because our society is inherently woman-hating. I actually think it happens because those people who wish to peddle misogynistic nonsense are overwhelmingly Muslim men. And we get a bit queasy about calling that out for the medieval, retrograde bollocks that it is.

How much freedom of speech is there in the average Islamic society? Would it tolerate a 48 mile restriction on movement being advocated on Muslims? But it's okay to do that to women because??

I may make myself a tad unpopular here,,, but picking up on comments by Limer and Sporting..

I feel that if it is very important to someone that they practice "their" religion when their religion conflicts with the law of this country, they should move to a part of the world where "their" religion is part of the official structure of the country.

And if they are not prepared to move, they should ask themselves why they are living in a country where the laws of the land conflict with "their" religion?

But Professor I have Muslim female friends who do not wear a veil, who wear western clothes, whose husbands have no objection to them going out of the house without premission (in fact they expect it), who do work, who do go more than 48 miles on occaision from their DHs (TBH most women would tell their partner if they were going away anyway and vice versa), they wear make up, they wear trousers. And no, the world hasn't come to an end because of this...

There is no real obligation to dress like you are an extra in a biblical epic. And it is perfectly possible to dress modestly in western clothes, most women do it everyday. We don't all ponce around in bikinis.

There is no reason why a person cannot be Muslim and fit in with the laws and norms here.

You are saying the great unsaid there Professor.

I hate all this fundamentalist stuff, partly because I feel it is turning me into some sort of racist. I've always though people should just practice whatever religion they like (my own being a fairly leftie version of Christianity).

But the more I learn about the Muslim faith, the more it seems to be pretty oppressive and downright joyless. We need more liberal Muslims to be getting their modern take on their religion across. Otherwise it is like letting mad fundamentalist fire and brimstone Christians take over the PR for the Church of England.

Cross posted a bit with Sport. See, I live in a very white bit of the country. I haven't been friends with, or even known, any Muslim people for about 25 years, since my student days. People like me, in our bubble, we only see what is in the media and it's all quite reactionary and negative.

Yes Tinkly some seem to be oppressive and downright joyless sods but many just want to get on with life and do the same things as the rest of us. But unfortunately the joyless sods have a habit of shouting very loudly and trying to make out that theirs is the only way.

Religion in the end I feel should have the option for people to practice it in the way they feel is appropriate to them, without others shouting at them to do what they say. It should be a very personal experience one that shouldn't need 'rules'.