hundreds dead and hundreds abducted in Syria

[StealthPolarBear]

Awful news coming out of Syria. Almost to the point I can't take it in any more.
Also why is this less newsworthy than snow on the bbc news?

Oh- give it up, just give it up!

I think the unarguable fact that they are arseholes of the highest order and that they would do the world a massive favour if they just did a Jim Jones trumps any religious affiliation they may or may not have.

Maybe a response and further discussion to my first post would be better then ....

It's completely depressing, Stealth. Dunno what anyone can do really: I feel powerless.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35495157

Hard to get your head around the sheer numbers.

How long before someone comes along and calls them economic migrants?

These people from Aleppo aren't fleeing ISIS, btw: they are fleeing Russian bombing and Syrian government troops.

Not long probs Misti. Assad and Russia are doing a lot of damage. I agree re Assad and Russia.

I bet they feel they can't win, they get bombed by first one side, then another and end up just running constantly. Nowhere and no one is safe in Syria, it is a far cry from the optimism of the Arab spring when everyone felt there was a chance at a new start for the region. It's ended up a bigger mess than anyone ever dreamed possible.

It is an unbelievably terrible situation OP. You are right to despair. I believe we should just get behind Assad.

Olivia - Assad is doing most of the killing. The people fleeing Aleppo en masse are fleeing the Assad regime and their Russian backers.

5 years this has been going on and people still get quite how evil the Assad regime is.

P.S The Assad regime helped create ISIS too, that's how evil they are.

I just feel so so sorry for your average joe Syrian who is indeed caught between a rock and a hard place. It must be utterly horrific. I wonder what my own threshold would be in terms of trying to end my life rather than exist in those conditions.

IPity, that is the impression I got. My other half volunteered with refugees in Serbia and many were fleeing Assad's bombs.

Haggis, I don't know. It must be awful.

I think most people understand that the Assad regime is evil. The question is whether actively seeking his demise through military intervention (arming rebels, airstrikes) has made things better for the Syrian people, or worse.

It would have made much more sense for western governments to impose arms embargoes, including any countries suspected of arming either side in the conflict (but that would mean pissing off the Saudis so it was never going to happen).

Too late now, the genie is out of the bottle ...

Misti - I don't think most people do think Assad is evil, sadly. I think they see him in a suit and automatically think he must be fairly reasonable, especially compared to ISIS (hence why ISIS Assad facilitated the creation of ISIS).

Assad is being backed militarily by Russia, Iran, Hezbollah and various Shia militias. A Western embargo would not have had the slightest effect on any of them.

While the FSA and similar groups have had some financial help from outside countries, most of their hardware comes from defeated brigades of the Syrian Army.

From the human devastation Assad has been able to wage against his own people for 5 years, it's clear that any Western intervention against him has been minimal.

Ipity www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/scandal-britains-6bn-arms-deals-6225129

And that's just the UK ...

Mistri - Your link proves my point. None of those countries are allied to Assad, so embargoes against them would not stop Assad's widescale slaughter of his own people.

Those fleeing Aleppo are fleeing aerial bombardment by Russian and Syrian regime air forces and Iranian and Hezbollah militias on the ground.

Again, a Western arms embargo would not hinder those groups in the slightest.

Assad is doing most of the killing

Depends on what paper you read - don't you think? Wasn't that said about Iraq and Libya anyway - and er' that ended well?

Assad goes and the void will be filled by jihadi nut jobs and extremists of all kinds, which will = perpetual war imo...

There's plenty of evil dictators in the world, the most vile of which we happily roll the red carpet out and throw dinner parties with the Queen for. The kind of regime change in Syria, that we are committed to, is a violation of international law and will destabilise the region even more. It will also make us less safe at home.

I think Assad really is doing most of the killing but agree the consequences of trying to topple these people are complex.

This article is I. The front page of the news section of the BBC website at the moment

Thousands of prisoners are being tortured and killed, by all warring factions. Da'esh and the Assad regime come in for the heaviest condemnation, but it is a terrible situation whoever the local warlord is.

Olivia - The vast majority of deaths in Syria have been caused by aerial attacks carried out by the regime and their allies. Have a google of "Barrel Bomb" if you want more information about this.

I'd like to know which newspapers are claiming any other forces are engaged in widespread mass bombing of civilian areas. Have a google of "Homs" if you want to see what that bombing looks like.

Have a of "Caesar Syria" if you want to see what mass detention, starvation and torture look like.

Half of Syria's population have left, in what the UN is calling the worst refugee crisis since WW2. The refugees won't return while Assad is in power, because the vast majority are fleeing from him. Hundreds of thousands have died and are dying. This isn't like Iraq or Libya, it's worse and there is no end in sight.

There is no future for Syria under Assad. Does Homs and Aleppo look like they have a future to you?

Ask yourself if you or your family would be happy living in Aleppo now?

But spare me the glib, know-all shoulder shrugging when you clearly don't have a clue.

Also, the uprising in Syria was an internal event. The idea that the Syrians were loyal subjects until the West put some money their way is nonsense:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26116868

Persistent government mismanagement and drought meant large numbers of people were having to leave the countryside to scrape a living in the cities. Meanwhile prices of food and all commodities were rising.

The people peacefully asked for reform, the regime responded by killing them in the streets.

'there is no end in sight'

terrifying and true

This is the footage of Homs by the way:

www.standard.co.uk/news/world/syria-drone-footage-shows-homs-devastation-after-years-of-war-a3171896.html

That's what the Assad regime did.

Talk of Saudi troops going into Syria. I assume to fight Iranian and other militia with US air cover.

This is getting serious. Its a Russia/US proxy war timed for the US Presidential election raging across the Middle East.

The EU may collapse as countries uinilaterally close borders close. Would Turkey invade Greece. Would war emerge again in the Balkans and Russia invade its nearby Republics in the chaos?

This is how WWI started.

I do worry what you said may happen, abeta. I don't think war will start again in the Balkans but I worry about what else Russia will get up to. Some Eastern European countries are getting quite pro Russia again.

It's an awful mess.