In light of the recent murders in Suffolk, isn't there now a case for providing vulnerable addicts with free drugs until they can be treated?

[bauble99]

The five murdered women were working as prostitutes. If newspaper reports are accurate, they were all heroin/crack cocaine users. By working to fund their habits they are at risk daily. Also, addicts who repeatedly shoplift and end up in prison must cost more to keep in prison than to treat with controlled doses of drugs in the community.

I think these people are beyond the 'Just Say No' campaigns reach. As addicts, they will always put themselves (and others, in many cases) at risk to get the funds to buy drugs.

Any thoughts?

I've got a vague memory that heroin was actually legal until relatively recently - around mid-20th century? So presumably it could be done.

I'd support providing addicts drugs whatever on licensed premises with doctors and nurses in attendance so they didn't have to go out and commit crime/prostitute themselves to buy drugs. But take the point that dealers might still be around trying to get people hooked in the first place. Would they though? If once hooked people could get their drugs for free from the NHS, there's not much business left in it for dealers and drug cartels, surely?

You could legislate to legalise prostitution (in fact, prostitution itself is legal, it's soliciting/running a brothel/living off immoral earnings that ain't, IIRC) without making it OK for job centres to put women into that line of work. Just need to draft the legislation carefully.

aardvark - you could always say you dont have experience in that field

or if prostitutes were all self employed (which I guess is exactly what they are) then it shouldnt be a problem

Steve I hope that one day you understand the devastation drug addiction or any addiction can bring to a family. I don't know if free drugs are the answer but I do know what is happening now is NOT working so we need to rethink.

You know mental illness is an illness and people are victims of an illness as someone may be a victim be of cancer. Addiction is a form of mental illness.

LOL! How many women don't have experience of - no, that's going to go horribly wrong if I post that seriously, so I shall retract it forthwith.

It did happen in Europe somewhere last year - posted a link to the thread the other day.

why not whats wrong with locking people up
if we did this country would not be in the state its in
we as a nation are to soft and its because people come out with stupid ideas like
lets give out free drugs
why not lets give hoodies free holidyas when they are bad
lets give cinvicted killers new identies when they get released
lets not tell any one that a nonce has moved into the street

""what we need in this day and age is to go back a few years
reintroduce national service
let the coppers clip the little shits that hang around outside shops scaring people around the ear

this sort of thing didnt happen as much years ago
its because we have to consider theor feelings now
who considers the feelings of the people at the other end or the line like the people that have to clean up after druggies

would you be so happy if one of your kids came in playing with a needle so druggie left on the pavement because they knew they could get me free ones"

what is the point in trying to discuss this with you? You sound like an advert for a Daily Mail campaign.

I could spend all day discussing the ins and outs of drug addictions with you, but I cant be arsed because I dont think that you will understand at all.

you could decriminalize prostitution in such a way that no-one could be forced to do it, you write the legislation in such a way - I seriously don't believe that people could be forced to become prostitutes or lose their JSA.

but Edam, how would you decide which addicts were deserving and which weren't? how would you stop them going out and buying more drugs as well as their free supply? The dealers would always have new targets, because by giving free drugs to current addicts wouldn't mean that no-one else wouldn't try drugs, in fact the dealers could all sign up for their free drugs as well under the pretence of being addicts.

While I certainly don't subscribe to the view that locking them up until they don't want them any more would work, I do think that the statement that we've become too soft on criminals is valid in many ways. if a burgler breaks into your house and you hit him over the head he can legitimately sue you, murderers are put in jail for 10 years and this is considered a life sentence, and more emphasis seems to be placed on the human rights of the criminal than the victim.

I do think we should be a lot, lot harder on the drug dealers, they should go to jail for 20, 30 years, whereas currently they get 2, 3, 4 years, and can sue the prison for not being given drugs while they're on the inside. hardly a deterrent is it.

"if a burgler breaks into your house and you hit him over the head he can legitimately sue you"

Really?!

Why not criminalise men who pay for sex rather than the women who offer it?

I think criminalising the act of paying for sex is rideculous - their would be far more rapes and sexually motivated crimes if these men couldn't get it somewhere.

Rape more about power than sex though? Or would it be about sex for some then? Or is visiting a prostitute not about sex but power?

Not easy this, is it?

Not easy but I think there must be lots of sexual deviants out there who visit prostitutes and I would rather them be paying for it with someone who was selling than taking it from someone who wasn't!!

Ime people do not choose to become addicts infact today I've been talking to an ex addict who was a teenage heroin addict because drugs blotted out the pain caused by years of abuse at the hands of his Dad. IME the majority of addicts (although not all) end up as addicts after seriously damaging experiences. If people really believe any one takes something and thinks "I know, I'll become an addict 'cause I can get a 'script" they really have no idea of the damage done by drugs to the addict and all around them.

Drug addiction is a big problem in this country and ime it is often the result of ineffectual mental health services and social services. If more was done before crisis point drug addiction may not be so prevelant and the crime that often goes with drug addiction (thieving and prostitution) would be reduced.

Sadly I heard recently that only 3% of addicts on prescribed drugs get clean. What does that say about the nature of addiction?

Prevention is better than cure and imho more needs to be done to prevent young people ending up as addicts whilst obviously treating addicts and seeing addiction as an illness rather than 'chosen' behaviour.

hurrah winnie! Someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

I always find it 'interesting' when people (narrowminded ones) suggest how easy it is for people to overcome drug addiction. I could not even give up chocolate, so cannot even begin to imagine how bloody hard it would be for someone to give up hard drugs.

What has to be considered also is that drug addicts cant just wake up one morning and think 'right, from today im going to be clean'
They cant because they would need to go to a Dr who would then in turn need to refer them, this can take approx 3 months, so an addict can have all thw will in the world to initially get clean, it doesnt take a genius to work out that unless immediate help is available, its a dead end situation.

When looking to ostracise drug addicts from society, I always suggest that perhaps someone considers the situation that one day, they to could have a child addicted to drugs (it can happen to any family).
How would they cope with that? would they be so quick then to judge????

My lecturer was telling us about a trial where heroin addicts were all given prescribed doses, without the risk from dirty drugs / dealers/ etc etc he claimed the results showed they were able to live normal lives at no additional cost to society. I found that interesting.

I'm still not sure that I completely agree with decriminalisation 9there'll alwys be someone wanting to deal, and they'll just hook kids too young to get help) and the effects of drug intake on preganancies is sad, but it certainly made me think and has swayed me mroe to the middle than I was on the subject.

Sorry, I don't get it. Giving free drugs to addicts, how exactly is that helping them? Drugs kill you don't they? That is why they are NOT A GOOD IDEA. I read an interview yesterday with a girl who is working as a prostitute to fund her drug habit. She knows she is taking a risk but says the drugs are going to kill her anyway so what's the difference! At the moment she can only take as much Heroin as she can earn the money to buy. If she got the drugs free would that stop her being a prostitute? I don't think so, I think she would carry on 'working' and still spend the money on Heroin because that is the nature of addiction, so she would actually end up taking more. If she was given the free drugs and locked up for her own good, then it might work, she could cut down over time. Can't see that happening though.

Don't srugs kill because they're cut with Jif, or then too pure, or people do dtupid things to get the money to give them, or use dirty needles or overdose because they don't know what they're doing?

All those factors could, theoretically, be ended with a Government run scheme.

As I said, I don't actually support complete deregulation but I do see a very strong case for it/

Just a thought after the making paying for sex illegal thing on here- I read it on here that they have done it in Sweden and it popped into my head that whilst I was in Stockholm at a work thing last month I asked one of the girls if their was a high crime rate their - I told her that p[ick pocketing was quite bad in London (as she was visiting this month) and she said that rape and other sex crimes were very bad over there at the moment - I wonder if this is a product of stopping men paying for sex???

I have to say I find the whole thing scary, as I found out from mutual friends that a very old friend of mine has applied to run a brothel. . I know that's because she is under 100% control now of her husband who is sleazy, convicted of fraud and lives mainly in Thailand. We also think she is doing drugs as she sleeps all day, weighs about 5 stone etc etc- no hard evidence though an (unreliable) friend says she saw them preparing drugs. The loval paper to her put a pic of her house (she is renting it to the chap applying for the licence, her Dh's mate) and announced they were searching for the owner. She lives in a tiny village, the kids attend school there and we are worried for them. She daren't say no, he has had fake passposrts amde for the kids and says he will snatch them and she is terrified

Sorry- probably worng palce to post it but V V worried atm

haven't read all of this yet
...but do beleive that it would be easier for drug addicts and the rest of us if it was available via clinic or chemist, cut out middle men drug dealers and you will cut out alot of evils and anti social behaviour associated and if something is legal takes away any aura it may have..if people are going to take stuff it may as well be clean (dont you remember loads of addicts dying in glasgow years ago turned out they were od'ing as heroin was too pure!) makes you think what the hell is in it normally..
plenty of police and folks at the front line of all this ask for legalisation

if you think legalisation would encourage others then I would say alcohol is literally pushed down our throats these days w/ 24 hours drinking laws and is just as dangerous if not more so as it socially acceptable to binge drink and seems to worn as badge of honour..

providing drugs free for vulnerable addicts - potential minefield of legal responsibilities issues and logistical operation nightmare.

providing prostitutes with safer more dignified places to work and making available in house support for problems that have led then to be a prostitue in the first place - excellent idea - decriminalise it and Gordon Brown can have tax and national insurance off them too to fund the services provided.

There's always someone in these debates who parrots some clever twaddle about women being made to take work as a prostitute or lose their jobseekers allowance. This country has acknowledged the views of conscientious objectors during war time and made allowances accordingly even in this country's greatest hour of need. Given this fact it is pretty safe to say that legislation would ensure that both men and women did not have to work as a prostitute or lose benefits.

knittingtinsel - am for general legalisation, with distribution through chemists or cafes many addicts can be prostitutes but not all - some pick pockets, kiters, shop lifters, burgulars, and er, some hold do hold down regular jobs in regular world..it would seriously reduce the need to steal, cheat etc..that does affects everyone else.
Addicts would have clean drugs, equipment, general public less hassle from them..
These drugs were available to public before and society didn't collapse then..
and again it could be done to raise money for exchequer..
if we can be 'trusted' to have fags & alcohol then this is must be next logical step...

I have known some addicts (most now dead), and FWIW I think all addicts should have access to drugs like methadone that don't give a high, but can help control the addiction and help the individual to function. I agree drug addiction should be treated as an illness.

I think there should be much less waiting time between an addict asking for legal medication and them getting it. As far as I know (things might have changed) it can take months to get a prescription. Too much can happen during that time as the first visit to the doctors may have been a real crisis point. Having to wait months for medication is not on - fancy having to wait months for painkillers or antibiotics if you have a bad infection.

As I said, addiction should be treated as an illness. Even if the individual never comes off drugs totally, they can use legal medication to normalise things in the long term, and so live a better, more mainstream life - like holding down a job, having a proper home, living with their families, not on the street.

I base this on the knowledge of one of my friends of many years and her partner. They are both heroine addicts (or ex addicts as they now take methadone or similar AFAIK- obviously I do not know their exact habits as it is none of my business - they may well be clean by now, though I know they still have counselling).

They both hold down jobs in the caring profession, are good parents to their child, and have a stable, loving home life. It is not a perfect situation but without access to free medication and counselling, I do not know where they would be now . I know that when my friend first went to the doctor, she did so very reluctantly, as she felt the whole process was so long drawn out and complicated.

I also very much agree with winnie's post that prevention is the best cure of all.

tiger moth - what would you do about cocaine, no subsitute i beleive..
like any addiction it only stops and stays stopped when person is ready..
if people want to be stoned out of it all their lifes then sad choice but practical solution is to let them do it safely..