Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

[Cellardoor1]

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

[NoSuchThingAsTooMuchLemon]

Swan, I will let you know when / if I find one, I'm afraid you may be right though...could be a needle in a haystack. Very frustrating.

[uglyswan]

Yes, please do, *NoSuch" - that would brighten up my day no end! But I am afraid that is how our media shapes public discourse (I do not believe that the public are stupid, I am a member of the public myself and I do all right ) - it's like Highlander: "There can be only one". And if I have to choose between immigration and women's rights, then I'm going to opt for the latter.

[Inkanta]

'Pinkchamp and Incanta, the generalisations about Muslims and refugees on this thread are very racist.'

There - you said it!. Do you hope this will all go away now. Your instincts seem to be to defend all Muslims rather than seek truths. Race issues need discussing thoroughly - this is not going to go away, and you may have noticed that women in particularly and getting highly pissed off and want action. The race card is not going to work - and thank God for that.

[BungoWomble]

I'd rather accept a new label - culturalist. I don't care about skin colour. I do care about cultural values, particularly those enabling women to be accepted as equal human beings.

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Clearly Luna hasn't read the full thread so her posts are starting to derail the conversation, which is annoying. Luna It doesn't matter if these people are recent migrants or 2/3 generation, I don't think anybody here is insisting that they are recent refuges from Syria, although one of the men has been quoted by police as saying "I am from Syria, Frau Merkel invited me" so make of that what you will. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12086473/Suspects-in-Cologne-sex-attacks-claimed-to-be-Syrian-refugees.html


The perpetrators sexually assaulted more than 100 women in the span of a few hours. The reasons are complex. Their culture is one factor, their social situation another, the lack of policing yet another. Are you seriously suggesting that women in North Africa and the ME have equal rights? Did you watch the public rape of a female reporter which was linked to at the beginning of this thread Luna? Did you read all the accounts of women, myself included who have been harassed by groups of ethnic men, some (man?) of whom see Western women as sluts? Look up some of the posts by Nadja unthread.

[LunaLodbrok]

Pinkchamp, you do realise Syria is being blown to smithereens and people are eating insects to survive? Building up their own country when they are being blown to bits by all sides? Not realisitc and no end in sight which is why they are leaving.

BungoWomble, 'the few actually arrested.' Does it then naturally follow that the rest were recent arrivals?

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Me too Bungo. Luna one last attempt this is not about race FGS. How simplistic of you to state so. If it were about race, we'd be saying all men with brown skin colour are x, y, z i.e. rapists. Not one poster here is doing this. So come off it now and stop derailing.

[Werksallhourz]

not all refugees will be peaceful good people. within any group they are the majority are but you will find those who commit crimes, those who are violent, those who are rapists and we know some have come over and have connections with ISIS. do we only accept those who are nice people ? that is not what accepting refugees into a country is about and it is impossible to do

So in the aims of "being nice", we should accept refugees that may be members of ISIS? On what grounds does "being nice" override security and defence concerns?

I am sorry, but your statement seems misguided. The primary purpose of a State is to defend its own realm and its own borders because they are the parameters of its authority and power: they constitute the very nature of the embodiment of the State itself because they define its jurisdiction.

No state is under any obligation to admit anyone into its territory apart from its own citizens or subjects. The state can choose to be party to treaties or can pass laws that create such obligations; but in the same vein, it can also choose to revoke them. And, certainly, no state is obliged to admit foreign nationals, whatever their status, that it deems unfit.

If we pass legislation or policy that we will accept any refugee from a war zone, regardless of their background, history, or criminal record, then we have no grounds to prevent giving asylum to those involved in a conflict or whose presence in Britain may be detrimental.

Britain already has had fairly serious diplomatic issues with some countries over stupidly offering asylum to wanted criminals, terrorists, war-lords and people responsible for genocide. There is, at least, one mass murderer living in London, responsible for the deaths of thousands of Africans during a civil conflict.

In short: there is no "what accepting refugees is about" apart from what is enshrined in British law and the treaties that Britain is party to.

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Luna I'm sorry I just cannot take you seriously. I think your posts are naive and presumptuous. Do you really think i am unaware of the situation in Syria? Based on your posts you seem to be getting most of your information from "your other half". What's your experience? How do you reckon the events in Germany ought to be death with?

[noeffingidea]

I honestly don't give one single shiny little fuck anymore if people like Luna call me racist. I'm interested in defending the rights of British women, that's all british women, Luna. Including those from Muslim, north African, Pakistani backgrounds.
Gaslight all you like, it's not working anymore.

[Pinkchampchoccies]

*dealt with

[NoSuchThingAsTooMuchLemon]

Swan, here's an article that manages to mention both issues, but as expected nothing on the likes of SZ or FAZ....

www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2016-01/sexuelle-gewalt-situation-frauen-alltag/komplettansicht

[uglyswan]

NoSuch Cool, thanks! Will read that and be back tonight (have got to actually get some work done now).

[Pinkchampchoccies]

"Aus den Geschehnissen ergäben sich „einige sehr ernsthafte Fragen, die über Köln hinausgehen“. Es stelle sich etwa die Frage nach Verbindungen, Verhaltensmustern und danach, ob es „in Teilen von Gruppen“ Frauenverachtung gebe. " www.rundschau-online.de/politik/sexuelle-uebergriffe-kanzlerin-angela-merkel-fordert-konsequenzen-aus-koelner-silvesternacht,15184890,33474370.html

Angela Merkel is now openly admitting that there are pockets of society where people despise / disrespect women "verachten' (not sure exactly how to translate) and that this needs to be challenged. About time.

[Pinkchampchoccies]

"stock up on ice cream (sore throat is such a great excuse)" Lemon I read that chocolate is also great for a sore throat .

[Werksallhourz]

luna inkchamp and Incanta, the generalisations about Muslims and refugees on this thread are very racist.

Generalising about Muslims is not racist because Islam is not a race. In fact, saying "generalising about Muslims is racist" is, in fact, the racist statement because it states that you believe Muslims are of different races to your implied audience. You are racialising Muslims, which is, in itself, a racist act.

Again, saying "generalising about refugees is racist" is also a racist statement because it implies that you believe these refugees are of a different race to the implied audience. You, again, are racialising refugees.

In short, you are racially "othering" Muslims and refugees in your statement, and "othering" on grounds of implied race is racist.

[LunaLodbrok]

Pinkchamp, you are deluded if you think noone on this thread is being racist. The assumption that a large proportion of refugees or immigrants are a threat to us because some people of the rather ambiguous term 'Arabic appearance' committed sexual assault is rather racist and very silly, considering the diverse range of places refugees and immigrants come from and the diversity of cultural behaviours that may come from those places.

[LunaLodbrok]

Pinkchamp, yes I believe you are aware of the situation in Syria, laughably so, because you think rebuilding rather than accepting refugees is currently an option. I get my information from various sources, including the other half who is a damn good source of information as he has met many refugees. Not sure why that would be bad information? Where do you get yours? It seems scant when you suggest rebuilding Syria when people are starving there.

Why is someone pointing out the glaring glitches in your arguments gaslighting?

Werks, find your own thoughts, not just Richard Dawkin's.

[Silverpinkswirls]

If this happened at a large train station in say London or Manchester here in the UK, how would it currently be dealt with and how would we want it to be dealt with.
Do we think there is the possibility of it happening here?
I do not think so because we do not have large groups of Arab/North African males living in the UK who clearly have different cultural views to the west for even wanting to arrange this enmasse sexual assault on European women.
What could we do to prevent this from happening in the future, God forbid, here in the UK.

[Tatiana44]

How do Syrian women feel about men leaving for Europe as refugees? Here is a YouTube vid which shows Syrian women speaking in their own language and giving their take on the exodus of men to Europe.

Remarks such as: "I am very upset about the men going. We have a major crisis here"
"In my opinion, it is forbidden to leave the country, they leave when it is in a bad need. They have to defend it."
"So if they go, who will protect us? We are their honour."

[Inkanta]

Luna - if I was groped by a man or group of men I would try and give a description in order to assert their identity. It may be 'white' 'black' 'Asian' 'oriental' 'Arabic' - etc etc.

Is that being racist? Were the German women racist for describing 'Arabic appearance' of some of the perpetrators?

Can we get back to the discussion about the perpetrators and crimes committed against women??

[MephistophelesApprentice]

Here, our police would identify the group forming on cameras and roll out at least three vans to stop it. Between football hooligans, demonstrations and the average saturday night our law enforcement has a deep aversion to impromptu crowds.

[Silverpinkswirls]

Are there areas of the U.K. where this is likely to happen.
If so does proactive action need to be taken to prevent a similiar occurrence here.
If so what action.
This is unlikely to happen where I live but it could in other parts of the U.K. that I am not familiar with with a different demographic.

[Silverpinkswirls]

Yes but in Cologne they didn't realise what was happening because the groups were split into smaller groups and they surrounded the women so tightly that it couldn't be identified on CCTV.
That's the scary part.
Plus it was NYE where you have tight groups celebrating. Think Trafalgar Square on NYE or Notting Hill Carnival etc.
Large dense groups of people on specific one off occasions where large dense clusters are normal and therefore more difficult to identify the groping and mugging etc as it is on a lower level of the body.

[LunaLodbrok]

Much has been made of the skin colour of the attackers, suggesting that those from countries where similar skin colour is common, that may wish to migrate to Europe, are likely to also carry out similar attacks, so that is racist for starters in the commonly held understanding of racism, that it is about skin colour.

Then the assumption that Muslim men present a danger because of an imagined homogenous culture, inspite of the fact that Muslim men come from many different countries and cultures. This belief that the lifestyle of Muslims presents a danger to what is percieved as 'ours' is also a form of what I understand to be racism.