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Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

999 replies

Cellardoor1 · 04/01/2016 22:20

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

OP posts:
onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:37

The comments I've been reading are on the local news and state police fb pages. All the comments by men (German men mostly) have been condemning the acts, the lack of police presence and the lukewarm political response.

Their sisters and friends were the ones attacks, their sisters and wives are the ones who don't feel safe in their own city.

I have seen equal amounts of condemnation for the racist far right groups who are now using this as a platform.

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:38

attacked

Lauren15 · 06/01/2016 21:42

It is simply a question of violent thugs versus decently behaved individuals. I 100% agree with you. I don't give a shit who is responsible. There must be zero tolerance for this behaviour.

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:43

A woman whose daughter was assaulted commented that her daughter reported it to police present at the time

She was told she needed evidence and asked exactly which man (out of the crowd of a thousand) it was. Obviously she could identify the man. She was then told "nothing is going to happen, go home".

Police have been told NOT to investigate certain "small scale" crimes here to concentrate on the "bigger" stuff, backed by the Home Secretary. There's also a crisis in police recruitment.

I'm sure the organizers of this crowd of men knew that and deliberately took advantage.

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:44

couldnt, sorry true to username I'm on my phone!

anonooo · 06/01/2016 21:46

Genuine question here. To what extent was it just a distraction tactic in order to thieve? And therefore not really about sexual assault, but using that as a tactic. No less disgusting, but less about terrorising women off the streets.

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:48

Love this

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:48

To no extent anonooo. No extent at all.

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:50

Also one very good comment I saw - the female Mayor was stabbed by someone protesting the immigration policy some months back.

A woman has asked her where HER "arms length" was when she was stabbed - damn right eh? If it's that fucking easy to avoid attack by keeping everyone at arms length, how come she didn't manage it?

Sorry it makes my blood boil.

NoSuchThingAsTooMuchLemon · 06/01/2016 21:54

I'm German, have mostly lived in Germany, but also spent a couple of years in London, Paris and Vancouver. The only time I was groped was in a night club in London. Cat calling and other intimidating behaviour seems to have happened in just about every country I've ever lived in or travelled to. In Southern Europe, North Africa and India a lot more than anywhere else.
It pains me to say that in my experience the great majority of men in Germany who didn't seem to understand "no" or have approached me or friends in a disrespectful way had Turkish, Arab or North African roots.

While (parts of) Germany may be culturally more conservative regarding women staying at home to raise the children, I feel it's a bit of leap to take this as a sign that German culture approves of women being sexually harassed.
I think Germany still has a very long way to go towards equal career opportunities for men and women, but so do all other European countries. Depicting Germany as a country where women are mostly SAHMs is rubbish though. As of 2012, 68 % of women in Germany worked (and 71% of women in supposedly oh so backwards Bavaria), compared to 65 % of women in the UK. Yes, there are a LOT of part-timers and wrap-around childcare is still very much insufficient in a lot of places, but the picture some posters have painted should really be taken with a grain of salt.

My own experience is a very different one as well. I grew up in a Bavarian village, but nobody I knew slagged off working mothers. Most of my friends are well-educated lawyers, doctors and bankers. Everyone is in their early thirties now and hardly anyone is married or has children.
Just like in the UK, many average families would struggle to survive on one wage anyways these days, so not working isn't even an option for many women, even if they wanted to stay at home.
I also find it quite insulting to assume that all the SAHMs are kept at home by chauvinistic husbands who by the way also condone the sexual harassment of women. I know a couple of educated, successful women who actively chose to not go back to work. Not because they were guilt tripped by society, but because they wanted to and could afford it. To draw conclusions from a higher percentage of SAHMs about a society's attitude towards sexual abuse is insulting to a lot of people, women and men, on so many levels and just not on.

I also think it's outrageous how some of the very politicians responsible for disastrous budget cuts now blame the very much understaffed and over-worked police. The federal police, who is responsible for controlling train stations in Germany, is catastrophically understaffed also because many of them are busy registering incoming refugees at the Bavarian borders at the moment.
State Police in North-Rhine-Westphalia have also experienced pretty drastic budget cuts and don't have the best reputation anyways. It's difficult to make any general statements about "German police" though, as each state is responsible for its own state police and budget / staffing situation differs quite a bit between states.
I live in Munich and can't see anything remotely as large scale as the events in Cologne happen here. You see a lot more police in the streets here, they generally seem quite capable, always willing to help and are actually (unlike their supposedly lax colleagues in some others states) notoriously heavy-handed in some situations (something that used to worry me but now bizarrely makes me feel safer).

Yes, Barbarian, my jaw did that and more when this was explained to me - by a German lawyer. If someone grabs your breasts and you slap him, you will be found guilty of assault, not him. If someone harasses and catcalls you and you flip him off, you will be found guilty of defamation, not (as long as he doesn't actually call you names that are commonly held to be insulting) him.

I disagree here. It's an absolute scandal that the law doesn't sufficiently protect women against sexual harassment, but in those scenarios the woman would usually be acting in self-defence and therefore not be found guilty of assault or defamation.

Interestingly before a reform of criminal law in 1973 women would have been protected against the types of sexual harassment discussed here. God knows what they were thinking when the new laws were made. I think it's high time Germans start campaigning for some badly necessary changes.

There were just as many German men getting off those trains as women. Where were they? Why did their presence not make it seem unsafe or at least impolitic to behave in ways that every adult, regardless of country of origin, knows perfectly well is illegal and indecent?

I have read quite a few eyewitness reports, some of which said that there were men who a. did manage to successfully protect their partners / other women, or b. were powerless faced with groups of 20-30 attackers. Why anyone would put the blame on the victims' male partners / friends / innocent bystanders rather than the perpetrators is quite beyond me.

My understanding of her argument is that it's the permissive culture in Germany which has permitted or encouraged these men to sexually assault women and children walking through a station on NYE?

While the legal situation is a scandal and we do have our fair share of men with outdated and horrible attitudes towards women (just like anywhere, sadly), I honestly don't think that the vast majority of Germans think groping and harassing women (children would be a whole different story legally anyways) is even remotely okay. I don't think there's more of a permissive culture than elsewhere in Europe. In my view the problem is women's rights always coming last as soon as the cultural sensibilities of particular groups may be hurt. Everyone including many women is so afraid of sounding even remotely right-wing that they would rather tell women to cover up than address the actual issues here.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 06/01/2016 21:58

this is absolutely awful and so is the reporting around this

my friend who lives in Germany says much of the press have been very carful not to mention that they are refuges until yesterday

where she lives they are welcoming refugees she is part of the committee to welcome them but when they raised concerns about a shelter for a few hundred people being built next door to a nursery their questions and concerns were ignored, what she feels is more worrying is that 80% they shall be taking in are young men

many of these young men have been living in a war zone or in awful conditions for a few years at least, along with attitudes towards western women from many middle eastern men and their differences in cultural attitude problems are going to arise, people don't just leave all their anger, their ignorance, their misogynistic views in their home country many refugees are very angry people who also blame the west for many of the issues going on in the me yet this is not allowed to be discussed all apparently are thankful and humble that is just not the case

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 21:58

Thank you for your post NoSuch, I agree with every part of it.

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 22:00

If this was a coordinated plot to turn the tide of feeling in Germany firmly against the refugees, it could not have been better orchestrated.

mimishimmi · 06/01/2016 22:00

"are pursuing an agenda that can only end in war. "

It's this. Mass immigration was a partial response to the holocaust with the idea that if the West was multiracial, it could never happen again. The problem was that those whom it has affected first were those who had nothing to do with the holocaust or who actually fought the Nazis. They've essentially given up. Meanwhile, those remnants of the right who did well from the war and who work largely for big corporations whose vested interests are in the endless continuance of it did even better with mass immigration. They saw it accomplishing two goals - decimating the 'weak' and those who judged them for past actions whilst setting the scene to see who would remain loyal to their 'vision' of a society of constant 'survival of the fittest'. Meaning who is willing to kill for them. Not to mention that the growth from population increase has boosted their profits enormously.

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 22:01

I have refugee housing being built directly next to where i live. I haven't had a second's doubt about it until now.

MamaMary · 06/01/2016 22:01

Updated story on BBC news website now.

At least 2 women were raped.

The justice minister Heiko Maas is now describing it as 'coordinated' and 'large scale mass crime'.

2016IsANewYearforMe · 06/01/2016 22:02

Nosuchthing you are describing the Germany that I recognise.

Destinysdaughter · 06/01/2016 22:03

I just watched the documentary on the Charlie Hebdo and Jewish grocery store shootings. May not be the best place to post this but it made me very afraid...

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 22:04

It cannot be coincidence that it happened in Germany, most vocally pro immigration out of all European countries.

Is it another facet of the Syrian war? Sew doubt and suspicion abroad so that escape routes for fleeing Syrians are cut off?

onthephone100 · 06/01/2016 22:04

Sow. Yuck sorry

MariscallRoad · 06/01/2016 22:05

I see a point that the events must be brought in front of and discussed in the European Parliament.

It is German women who should endeavour to do so.

visitorfromgermany · 06/01/2016 22:07

manylemons, I agree thoroughly and I am glad, that you wrote this so detailed, because your english is way better than mine and you said a lot of things I would have liked to say but couldn´t

Werksallhourz · 06/01/2016 22:10

To what extent was it just a distraction tactic in order to thieve? And therefore not really about sexual assault, but using that as a tactic. No less disgusting, but less about terrorising women off the streets.

anonoo I would argue that forms of street thievery that involve physical assault for example, mugging are a form of terrorising victims.

To be honest, I think the people of Cologne who are angry about this incident should forget about street protests and just declare a general strike. It will soon focus politicians' minds when no-one turns up for work.

HotterWok · 06/01/2016 22:12

Excellent post nosuch, also great username. What do you think Germany should do now?

StealthPolarBear · 06/01/2016 22:13

"
Today 19:39Destinysdaughter

Watched the BBC and C4 news tonight. This is such a massive story, why is it not being reported on mainstream media? ( apologies of it was and I've just missed it!)"

Its on the bbc I'd you look hard enough. Unlike other news stories it doesn't seem to be getting the big boxes and banners