5.5.M Brits

[speedySleighmamahohoho]

Story here . What I find funny is reading the letter page. One of the reasons given for leaving is because of the amount of immigration to this country.

So when they move to another country, don't they too become immigrants? I also hope that they plan to integrate into their new country by observing their culture and learning the language, if necessary, rather than creating Little England microcosms in their new country.

ghosty, talk me away from that highly insulting and ill informed comment. It really is too late in my day for a "spat"

What relevance is there to the fact that some expat Brits don't integrate or learn the language of their new home country?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not ignorant because I am aware of what is going on in the world, here for example.

Don't understand why some feel offended by this

Ummmmm...let's see
Your snide tone is top of my list and very hotly followed by your personalised comments as to why I feel offended

Fled?
Bothered?

do you actually know the circumstances of my move to Australia?
do you really want to know about the time my Australian dh interacted with some members of the indigineous populatioin who were trying to rob his computer? Or do you think it's all corroborrees and teaching digeridoos?

Just because a section of the population has been unfairly treated and marginalised (sad facts of which I am aware daily) it doesn't mean there aren't problems for both sides.

I'd like it noted please that I DO NOT eat the vegemite, it's for dd & dh. I WANT MARMITE!!!

Speedy...... What Suzy said!

Suzy...c'mon girl, get ya size 6 thongs in there!

size 11
I am virtually a transvestite fitting over here

I was trying to be polite, I'm a nine, but didn't want to insult you!

I wonder if we should he integrating with the members of the indigineous population when they are drinking flagons of cheep wine & abusing people who refuse to give them money, when trying to got about their lives?

Not all like that I know, but most I have seen/heard about are not the type I'd like to integrate with.

indeed sandy

I was only in the Fremantle museum today reading about the awful Massacre of the Noongar people in 1832 by the British and I do try and keep something of an eye on indigenous affairs and I am very aware that I am living on borrowed (that's putting it lightly) land.

However, most of the aboriginal people I see who are more than 50% and that is just a guess as there are many many many people of aboriginal descent through every level of Australian society but just don't wear a big sign round their necks, are sitting round drinking.
I know the diaspora within their own lands and being ripped from their traditions and lifestyles and families is a huge contributing factor to this behaviour and I feel bad about it, but I cannot just saunter over to a group of these people, pull up a pew and offer to learn their languages and their tradtions. It just doesn't work like that.

At the universities here, particularly UWA, there is a vigourous and far reaching Aboriginal Studies unit that flings its doors wide and invites everyone it, and that's great, but what it is seemingly difficult for people to grasp is that it is not just a case of offering a friendly hand and asking for a go on the dijeridoo.
I belong the the Australian Breast Feeding Association and I was asking questions about what kind of realtionship did the ABA have with the various Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders' various health groups and did we lend our support if needed and was told in no uncertain tones that A&TSI do not care to be pastrolised and preached to by Other groups, particularly those from a dominant ethnic group.

In short, one waits to be invited into A&TSI affairs and culture. One trys to stay informed and open minded and one waits. And even then should there be a bridge between the two groups after all the shit they've put up with, and to be quite frank I would not blame them if they never wanted to speak to anyone British at all, I would most certainly not try and speak their language as often it is sacred to that particular tribe.

harrumph

You see this sometimes in the US with Native Americans. I think its shameful that people blame them for their problems instead of blaming themselves and their ancesters.

Suzy, I am yet to meet any Aboriginals other than those I spoke about.

If I were part of a group that they attended I would treat them like any other person. I only ask that they do the same to me. Like any culture I believe there is good & bad.

I honestly have never met one in a face to face situation. Should I be surprised that I have never (and I do mean never, have visited Australia twice & lived here for 6 months nearly) seen one at work, say in shop for example? Nor one dressed in a suit, as if going to work. There are plenty of non aboriginal australians who work etc, can't help thinking that if they contributed to society, they may find they get more back? Or is that just ignorance on my part?

I don't know much about their beliefs/culture, this is something I intend to work on in the new year.

Sorry, should be never knowingly

You should note that Aborigines and Native Americans did not suffer alcohol abuse problems prior to the arrival of the Europeans.

Also, who is making money from selling alcohol to the Aborigines because I bet it is not their community.

Exactly Speedy

Speedy has made some pretty breathtaking assumptions about why people move to different countries, or "flee", as she so interestingly puts it , but I can't being myself to care about that so will let it pass. My reasons for fleeing Singapore will have to wait another day .

What I do care about is this staggeringly ignorant notion that all you have to do is amble over to the indigenous population and learn a few words of their lingo and ask them about their quaint customs, and they will love you and you will all live happily ever after.

I have, as it happens, more experience with indigenous populations than speedy has assumed, and that being so, there is no way I would generalise about hundreds and thousands of people in a country - let alone around the world.

That said, there are a couple of common threads which recur in different countries and one of them is that being patronised by foreignors is right up there with racism - because it is, actually, a form of racism.

Blaming the poor for having the problems of poverty is unhelpful, but so is the "poor darlings, they can't help it so they need a special double standard" mentality, which is dreadfully insulting.

It also does nothing to solve the problems of poor health and education, crime, alcoholism, violence and so on, which crop up in all societies, but especially marginalised ones. These are real problems that are ruining real lives, and I can guarantee you that in a community in crisis about the last thing people need is clueless bleeding hearts trying to effing integrate with them.

Can I just say when I wrote about Brits fleeing I was being flippant. Surely you are not so gullible to believe that I think that the majority of Brits leaving are fleeing [shakes head in exasperation].

My comments were alluding to the fact that there are a lot of people who state (including on MN) that they want to leave because there are too many immigrants. Those are the ones I was alluding too.

Right, I'll stop winding up the key.

Er, speedy, just in case you forgot, here's what you said again:

"Interesting reading comments from those who have fled, sorry, immigrated to Australia and New Zealand? I wonder how many have interacted with the indigenous population and bothered to learn or try to understand their culture, language, customs, beliefs etc? I also wonder if the indigenous population are treated as ethnic minorities in their own country?. I think I know the answer to that one."

So you now say you were just being flippant?

Bit of frantic backpedalling there, no?

spent almost three years teaching in a small bush town in QLD where there was about 50% aboriginal population and as suzy said - you don't go barreling in with your ideas etc. It is about waiting and being invited to participate - I learnt an awful lot about the aboriginal culture of that area and their history. My daughter in fact has an aboriginal name chosen by her 'immigrant pommy father'. However we are also talking about roughly 1% of the population.

Dh has an understanding of their history and what has happened to them but he is not about to go wandering through the outback trying to learn their language - very difficult when there are over 100 language groups - and try to understand their culture and history. Again it is respecting their space and their culture and identity rather than trying to be like them - that would be seen as very patronising and insulting.

Australia truly is a melting pot of cultures and ethnic groups - and despite some people's fears that we would be over run by asian immigrants and refugees - people from the UK still comprise our largest immigrant group.

you are an arse, speedy

try your best not to cross paths with me on this topic againn

yay suzy!
hows the weather holding up? say hello to my dh today please, and tell him he forgot to pay the bloody telephone bill and they won't talk to me because I'm not the account holder so he Can't Phone Me, and I Can't Phone Anyone Else, the arse

I am writing a placard to that effect right now, PPH, I shall hold it aloft all morning until he sees it

SW, I'm quivering in my boots. Name calling is so churlish. I did not realise we were back in the playground.

Also, if I wish to discuss this topic again, I will, irrespective of whether you are on the thread or not. Last time I looked, this site was still an open, uncensored and democratic forum.

Goodnight and enjoy the festive season!

Has this thing kicked off yet?

By the way, ghosty at "peeaaar" and "doooaaar" - dd1 has just come back from creche talking about "dinosooaars".... and our least favourite purple dinosooaar is called Bearney, apparently.