So is marriage the solution to all social evils?

[BrummieOnTheRun]

"...in the wake of a Tory report that says unmarried parents are driving a generation of children into crime and drug dependency...The Tories claim the rise in cohabitation and single parenthood is unleashing a social and economic crisis.
In an appeal to grassroots supporters, the party will this week put the promotion of marriage back at the heart of its agenda, warning of dire consequences if more couples are not encouraged to wed."

So is the solution marriage, or encouraging more household back into employment?
We married this year after 15 years of sinful co-habiting and I don't feel marriage makes a blind bit of difference to a good relationship. I see the lack of any working role models in these households as being the bigger issue.
But then I'm sure some of these kids are from single-parent households where the mother is killing herself with multiple jobs trying to make ends meet, so...???
Any opinions?
Full article here: /link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2496320,00.html}

i agree with xmenia - get these prenant 16 yo's supply them with a baby sling and get them tidying the railways.

after all dont people in africa give birth and return to working after?

Xenia, people should work for wages, not benefits.

What use to happen before the welfare system existed? Didn't the poor have to go into Work Houses? Is this the Victorian Values that the Tories hearken back to?

My cousin had a baby when she was 15yo. She was a rebel and did what she wanted. Having the baby made her grow up. She went to college and is a qualified Midwife now and has 5 children in total. Not all single, teenage mums have zero ambition or aspiration.

I have no idea what the answer is but I do know that at some point, individuals have to take responsibility for their lives.

What happened in workhouses is that families were split up. Women went into one block, men into another and children into another, where they could be physically and/ or sexually abused at leisure without the interference of their parents. Family values eh.

And earlier, under the Speenhamland system, healthy males were sent to build pointless roads that led nowhere. Just so that they were working. Great expenditure of energy, that.

Surely we can do a bit better? Did we really go through the 20th century just to find the same old non-solutions to the same old problems? How depressing. I'm off to see if I can persuade my DS to let me watch Johnny Depp cavorting around in a pirate outfit, whilst pretending it's for the benefit of my children. Much better way to spend the rest of the afternoon.

Johnny Depp? yum. enjoy!

Well i was supposed to be packing the house for our move all day today. DH home in 2 hours. bugger! Hope he hasn't logged on and seen what I've really been doing . (Sorry Jim)

If people are so shallow and money-focused that David Cameron's suggestion that tax-breaks will lead to more marriages is actually correct it can lead to only one thing - more marriage break-ups. I'm sure only a hard core tory voter could think - oh our marriage is a mess but there's the tax breaks to consider so we had better stay together!
If the stats show that children within a marriage already do better then why not assist those at the top of the heap with even more assistance by way of giving their parents a bit of extra spending £. That's sure to help build a more fair and cohesive society.

Lovemygirls - filled with admiration for how you're trying to make a decent life for your family. You could always come to the South East - your dp would be on way more than £20K if he works in IT and your housing costs in some towns would not be much higher eg 3 bed house in Hemel Hempstead advertised in our local paper @ £750 per month. Luton is even cheaper, apparently.

In answer to question,no I don't think so.Have lived with dp for 13 years and consider it a stable relationship.Know some really excellent single mums too.

to answer the question - IMO, in general marriage is a social glue. It depends on the marriage though, currently my own is dire and not exaclty a glowing example of the creation of social stability

At the end of the day, we have undergone a huge transformation in the way our society works and handles bringing up children. I think that commitment to stick with the relationship is more important than marriage.

I honestly think that a cohabiting couple can be just as committed as a married couple. It seems to me that all they have discovered is that children on average do better with a stable home life.

Workhouses were so cruelly run and designed they made the windows of the children's section so high that the kids couldn't even see their parents. I read a biography of someone who had been in one and he said his mother told him afterwards that she could hear him but not see him. They were in and out of the workhouse because his father was a potter in Stoke on Trent and every time the business slowed down, they'd sack people.

in Ireland there were homes for children not unlike this until relatively recently

I mean no-one has suggested re-introducing workhouses, have they?

I think there is an issue with making work pay and balancing benefits with voluntary work or something. Not for mothers who are fully occupied with their children, but for teenagers who fall straight into a life of dependency without ever experiencing anything else.

I know I wouldn't want to have fallen into that trap, but how can someone with no experience of a fulfilling job understand what lies on the 'other side'?

i said that i would hope to get married one day - and i do want/ would like to but on the other side of it i do feel like we are a very strong stable couple and i know that we are together because we enjoy sharing our lives with each other - not because we said a few words years ago and now we have to make it work - it just works because we love each other. i know if he didnt want to be here then he wouldn't be - he's not quietly thinking i'd love to get out of this but i can't because she will screw me every penny i have worked for........

why do people stay in bad marriages?
because they can't afford to get out
they hope the other person will change (well thats just the point isnt it? - the other person has changed over the years and has become someone they don't like/ love anymore?) are they yearning for the person they fell in love with? sometimes so many things happen in your life time and we grow and change not always together.....

when they say marriage is for life......
it used to mean for 40yrs or so (because we didnt live as long?)
now it could mean for the next 80yrs.

i have thought maybe it would be better if marriage had an expiry date of say 20yrs - there would def be less divorce wouldnt there?

but then you would have to get married again or one of you might want to and the other might not...... and then your assets would have to be divided - its very tricky.

i don't really know just writing my mangled thoughts down at the moment.

I think the Tory's are missing the point; imho it is not about marriage or even cohabiting. It is about children needing balanced, stable parents who always contribute (emotionally and financially) to their childrens lives whatever happens within the parents relationship. This is unlikely to happen to all children all of the time (obviously) and therefore what we need as a society are structures to support and nurture children when this doesn't/can't happen.

This does not mean that I believe single parents do a bad job. I am a single parent twice over and believe that many single parents do a terrific job (whilst some two parent families do a terrible job). However, I've never met a single parent yet who wouldn't like another adult putting as much as they do into their child/rens lives. It is about individual responsibility for ones offspring and unfortunately none of us can guarantee the other parent of our children are good parenting material and are likely to continue to act in the childs best interest once a relationship breaks down or even before. (I hope that makes sense.)

This is all linked to housing, poverty, education and culture. As a society we do need to look at the pressures on families that mean so many do break up (married or not).

Personally, I feel it needs to be harder to get married and easier to get divorced and we need parenting & sex education to be on the curriculum across the board from a relatively early age. We also need free accessible family planning services and more honesty about sex and relationships in this society. There, easy

I feel I should clarify; I do not think all of the evils of society are down to bad parenting; I certainly do not feel that all bad parenting is done by single parents or absent parents either.

polly toynbee today

Thanks Winnie!

Following Polly Toynbee's article, I wonder what they are doing in Denmark that makes them so successful?

good question WhenSantaWentQuietlyMad.

excellent article winnie - thanks for taking the time to post it.

After a very quick google the first thing I came up with is the suggestion that social policy in Denmark has moved away from the use of moral regulation of single mothers and a strong male income earner model & now highlights men's roles as fathers, as well as women's roles as workers.

Hooray for Denmark - are you listening Tony/Gordon??

Excellent article by Polly Toynbee.

The other thing Denmark has, is low cost housing (unlike here) and flexible working much more as a norm. (Unlike here.)